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Interesting thread over on the Slow Bicycle Movement Fb page, regarding the disbenefits of clipless pedals, and the benefits of riding flats.
At the risk of stoking controversy amongst clipless enthusiasts (of which there seem to be quite a few on this forum), thought I'd share this article from Rivendell Bicycle Works: http://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=45
It's a polemic and I've heard those arguments against clipless before and as the article says it's not intended for me. I suppose it might put people off trying clipless who might actually feel a benefit in using them. FWIW I think clipless is unnecessary for low-speed riding but works for me at higher speeds because I don't have to worry about my feet coming off the pedals, irrespective of whether it helps me find that elusive 360° pedalling style. It *is* possible to unweight on the upstroke, I can hear my cleats clicking around if they are worn. Whether there's any benefit I have no idea.
It's not much of a ruse. My cycling shoes last ages given how much use they get. I remember normal shoes getting chewed up quite quickly in the past when I used them for cycling as well. So I'm guessing I might even be saving a little money by using the clipless system. But who cares!
I use flats because I'm massively uncoordinated and don't need to add any complications to riding my bike and I have zero interest in going fast or being efficient about it. That said, I don't care what anyone else does - the main annoyance about clipless pedals is all the people who try and tell you you should try them and after you've fallen off at the lights half a dozen times you'll get the hang of them. Of course, it doesn't matter how you cycle, there's always someone out there willing to tell you you're doing it wrong. That said, someone's just castigated me on my blog for walking in wellies instead of sensible shoes so perhaps it's just being human that we're doing wrong...
FWIW, deeply treaded boots plus mountain bike pedals seem to fix your foot onto the pedal fairly effectively - certainly I've had no problems with my foot slipping off since I got those.
It depends. I quite like clipless pedals for training and racing as clips are a bit of a liability off road. But I wouldn't bother for commuting or riding around town. I have half and half pedals on my Surly so I can wear whatever shoes I want.
Not sure where straps fit in this but I think they're a nice comfortable halfway house between flat and cages. Still use your own shoes but you can adjust the size for winter boots when that time comes. Trying to wedge big shoes into small toe traps is not a game worth playing.
I run clipless on my road bike and my TT bike with triathlon-specific shoes and one day I will learn how to do a proper triathlete's mount and put on my shoes while cycling off down the road.
I run flat pedals on my Brompton and cycle around quite happliy in smart office shoes, Docs, or trainers.
Both of the above decisions are perfectly sensible for the kind of riding I am doing at the time.
I run SPDs because it's a badge of belonging. The girl who persuaded me to clip in in 2001 now rides a 1970s Moulton folding shopper in her kitten-heeled office shoes. I see her sometimes at Myreside on the way in.
Having SPDs does sometimes stop me riding to get some shopping though, if I can't be fagged changing my shoes. Should get double-siders.
My cleats are worn at the mo' and I've pulled my feet out of the pedals accidentaly a couple of times. It's comforting to be welded to your machine.
Yeah I need to get double sided pedals. number of times I've just walked rather than change my shoes is getting silly.
I use Keo cleats on the road bike as.. it's a road bike and it's for going fast so I like the power transfer.
Commuting on a hybrid with child number 2 on the back I use SPD's as I much prefer clipped in to flats. I think it gives a more controlled feeling. Never fallen off yet (touch wood).
I had never used SPDs until I bought a road bike. I did decide a it looks better and that it must have a benefit to it.
I then changed my pedals on the commuter bike.
Much easier to use and no fear of slipping off pedals in the wet.
"Both of the above decisions are perfectly sensible for the kind of riding I am doing at the time."
Even if they weren't 'sensible' (sez hoo?) , they are your decisions - for you - so are sensible.
I use flats, SPDs and SPD-SLs, just not at the same time. There have been times when I've been clipped in when I wish I wasn't (a couple of sideways topples), and times when I haven't been clipped in when I wished I was (a couple of foot slipping off the pedal incidents).
Strange article on the link, though.
I used to use SPD for commuting, but reverted to old-fashioned toe-clips after several knee operations - I prefer being able to move the position of my foot on the pedals slightly while still having something to keep my foot there and give me some ability to push and pull up (albeit very slightly). I know I am now in a massive minority using toe-clips still but I like them. Worst thing for toe-clips is shoes with thick treads which catch the edge of the pedal and prevent you from getting your foot in or out easily…. for that reason and stiffness of sole I tend to walk around in cycling shoes with no clips in...
@ IWRATS
"Moulton folding shopper"
Not that Moultons fold of course...
@algo, aye I'm a toeclips fan. Tend to only use them where I'll be riding some distance, or at some speed (all relative, I'm not talking race speeds). Even then I don't tighten them, but keep them a bit loose so I can change foot position (and get a foot down if need be). Otherwise for general purpose utility cycling it's flats or 'cage' pedals (MTB/touring style).
@chdot
"Not that Moultons fold of course..."
Not in your hands maybe.
Not that Moultons fold of course
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/moulton/tsr-8-folding-bike-ec045425
Evans begs to differ. Even if they are wrong.
I use toe clips on my commute. Can't be fagged un clipping at every traffic light. I have mountain bike style clip in on my winter road bike and proper road bike clip in on my summer road bike.
What about what the dude says about road racers not pulling on the upstroke, just not pushing down on it.??
"Not that Moultons fold of course"
The trick is in unfolding them and being able to ride afterwards
Rivendell article seems like bunk to me. I did laugh out loud when I read "at some point the madness has to stop"!!!!!!
It starts off by building a straw man: "The argument in favor of Special Shoes is ... power for the full 360-degrees".
Umm... the main advantage of special shoes is that you can't slip off the bike! Nobody thinks that you can put power in for the full rotation (although you can briefly, i.e. to pull away from lights).
It goes on to claim that *not* using special shoes is more efficient and less likely to lead to repetitive strain. How strange that without exception, everyone in the world whose livelihood depends on efficient pedalling and staying injury free wears special shoes! Someone should tell them about this article!
There's a bit of junk pseudo science in there too. Apparently adjusting your foot on the pedal changes the muscles in your legs which are being used, giving them a rest. Armed with this tip, next time I get tired on my commute I will simply rest my calves and quads with a different foot position, and use my spares instead! Genius!
@dave good analysis of his piece. He does say at the beginning that if you ride for a living or are roadie fanatic (ie those who will definitely disagree then they should stop reading which is a good device of rhetoric). He also makes same point as you about short burst of power - he says short steep climb, you mention traffic lights.
In total though the article is considerably less groundbreaking than the author would have us imagine.
However, the point I liked was the one I mentioned above that despite it being propounded on here and elsewhere - he claims there is no pull on the upstroke in the pro peloton just no pushing down on the upstroke. I feel I should clip in and test this out on the Lang Whang this morning to see if one leg is working against the other etc.
Pull on the upstroke is often cited as big reason for clipping in i.e. Using all muscles evenly distributed. The other is as you say - no slippage.
"I feel I should clip in and test this out on the Lang Whang this morning to see if one leg is working against the other etc."
Cycling one legged is definitely a big plus for being clipped in. It can be used to confuse motorists and of course to give one leg a rest.
"Cycling one legged is definitely a big plus for being clipped in."
I once had a teacher with a wooden leg.
He had a bike with one pedal - with toeclip/strap.
Don't think he went far (don't know where he actually stayed). The area was fairly flat.
Most odd to see one leg just hanging, but a highly effective means of transport/mobility.
"Umm... the main advantage of special shoes is that you can't slip off the bike! "
Yeah, the article does mention this. Also mentions sprinting and short, steep climbs.
I get the impression this chap Grant Petersen is trying to counter the increasing domination of proprietary racing technologies in areas of cycling that, frankly, don't really need to use them.
So it's a different "velosophy" as he would put it.
"*not* using special shoes is more efficient and less likely to lead to repetitive strain."
Well even on this forum we've had tales of "hot spots", sore knees caused by poorly adjusted cleats, etc. So I reckon there must be something in it: locking your feet into one parallel position for long periods of time could cause repetitive strain injury. I'm less taken by the "efficiency" argument, but I'm also sceptical about the largely engineering based approach that sees the human body as simply a mechanical piston.
Again if we look at Petersen's world view, it comes down to a dichotomy between "racing" and what he calls "unracing", ie. cycling that's not competitive sport. He's making the point that, unless engaged in the former (eg. as you said your livelihood depends on it), you really don't need clipless pedals, which I think is fair enough.
"it comes down to a dichotomy between "racing" and what he calls "unracing", ie. cycling that's not competitive sport."
@crowriver I think that you've put your finger on it. However that doesn't really bear resemblance to reality. There are many uses of cycles, a lot of crossover and folk have their preferences. In a way it is typical of low-grade journalism, wanting to create divisions where none exists, black/white where the reality is grey.
I don't need my SPDs but I do like them. The sensation of unity with the machine is pleasant.
When the inevitable happens and I go beyond my Ein Mensch, Ein Fahrrad philosophy I will have a town bike with flats and a chainguard.
"In a way it is typical of low-grade journalism"
Except the author makes and sells custom bike frames: steel, lugged construction. Apparently used to work for Bridgestone USA back in the day.
I suppose some might refer to his "velosophy" as "retrogrouch". Perhaps evangelising this position (with its brazed steel, moustache bars, twine or cork grips, wool jerseys, bar-end/downtube shifters, leather saddles, racks and canvas saddlebags ethos) at a time (the nineties/early zeroes) when most of the industry was pushing racxing tech (carbon fibre, drop bars, clipless pedals, lycra, brifters, "cut-out" saddles, no luggage), led to an oppositional, factionalising stance.
Arguably, now that the ethos he is (stll) pushing has become more popular, there's no need to be partisan about it. Then again, given that the "racing" fraternity are as partisan as ever, maybe there is still a need for an "opposition"?
@ CHdot, you missed an opportunity there? What was the name of the teacher? Imagine it was Smith.
I once had a teacher with a wooden leg called Smith. what was the name of his other leg?
See fear of wood legs in literature - treasure island, sign of four (Sherlock holmes)
Alas my reference is to the film Mary Poppins
I hope as someone who rides around with a drum brake and dynamo and is into recumbents, I don't really need to worry about being blinkered into "roadie ism"..
If the article merely said "hey, you don't *need* to have bike-specific shoes, any more than you need running shoes to run or special boots to climb a mountain" then that would be fair enough, and who could disagree?
Sadly it goes much further than that...
Q. who is most likely to get repetitive strain?
A. people who do a very large amount of cycling
Q. what type of shoe are people who do a very large amount of cycling most likely to wear?
A. specific bike shoes
Conclusion: OMG, bike shoes cause injuries! Wear crocs!
Where's my tinfoil helmet?
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