CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

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(20 posts)
  • Started 13 years ago by I were right about that saddle
  • Latest reply from Smudge

  1. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    My Fellow Commuters,

    This looks like an interesting community, and after a quick rake through the topics I've come to the conclusion that after twenty years of Edinburgh cycle commuting I probably know half of you by sight. Especially those of you active around the Meadows on recumbents. I wonder if the chap who heads East round the Meadows on a yellow recumbent with a great big fixed grin each morning around 08h45 is in here? Or indeed the gentleman with the home-made plastic fairing on his aluminium shopper?

    Anyway, I signed up because each leg of my commute gets me wondering if there wouldn't be mileage in Edinburgh's numerous cycle commuters getting together not just to engage in anti-white van grumbling (though that can be a great art form and I'm partial myself) but to actually apply political pressure to our cooncil to make cycling the default journey to work for Edinburghers. That would of course require a complete volte-face in terms of transport policy.

    This forum seems like a great starting point. How many people are active here and how many watchers are there? Anybody thought of trying to promote membership in the real world? Cheers,

    IWRATS

    Posted 13 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    Thanks for that.

    When I started this forum a year ago I really wasn't sure who would join (if anyone) and what 'sort of' cyclist would join.

    I had spoken to a small number of 'bicycle people' who seemed to think it was a good idea.

    They still post here.

    In addition it seems to have attracted a smallish group of regular posters who add anecdotes and entertainment.

    There are others who post occasionally on certain topics.

    In addition there are clearly a lot of 'watchers' (I think "lurkers" is less complimentary). A large proportion have Edinburgh ISPs though this site has 'fans' around the world.

    I am pleased that many posters are "bicycle commuters". There is a disproportionately large percentage who ride 'funny bike's (some people say I do too - but not that sort...)

    There are also some who like riding hundreds of miles in the pouring rain.

    There are a lot of people who own cars and (allegedly) white vans.

    'Traditionally' - i.e. the last 33 years. Spokes has spearheaded much of the 'bicycle campaigning' in/around Edinburgh. In campaigning/voluntary sector terms this is a highly succesful organisation which not only still exists, it has never had paid staff and has made a real difference to cycle policies and provision on the ground.

    In general his has been achieved by a fairly small number of individuals.

    There is a widely held view that there too many cycling organisations. But the people who think that (for instance) Sustrans, CTC, Cycling Scotland, Scottish Cycling etc should merge or "speak with one voice" doesn't understand 'cycling'.

    People ride bikes for sport, leisure and transport AND all three - and (mostly) fun.

    In general I think it would better to work with/through Spokes. There are people would like to see it being more like the London Cycle Campaign with more members, paid staff and a glossier magazine.

    London is a lot bigger than Edinburgh and whether LCC is more effective in campaigning/lobbying terms would be hard to quantify.

    One of the effective ways Spokes works is by persuading lots of people to write/email to councillors, MSPs etc.

    This forum has on many occassions highlighted issues where a number of people have sent messages to their politicians and then posted some of the replies.

    There is a Holyrood election next May so it's worth thinking about contacting your current MSPs.

    I'm sure that there will be plenty of scrutiny about how 'cycle friendly' the candidates for election are.

    One problem is that 'we' understand how important cycling is, but too many politicians just regard 'us' as a minority.

    Perhaps all communications with politicians should start with "I'm a motorist but..."

    Posted 13 years ago #
  3. LaidBack
    Member

    Anybody thought of trying to promote membership in the real world?

    But we're in it - aren't we? :-)

    Welcome to forum IWRATS. LB (the business) has various recumbents but not a yellow one at moment. I've sold some yellow Bacchettas recently though.

    I think we have put a lot of pressure on politicians via Spokes and CTC. Many people on forum here have written and phoned in to make constructive suggestions to things that haven't been done right. Most cycling 'facilities' have to be re-done 3 times it seems.
    Conversely the 'powers that be' could use this forum to consult. They may be amazed at the postive reaction.

    As far as getting non-cycists interested I've tried to get the 'media' look at the tribes of cycling that exist.

    fix wheelers / single speeders
    basket cases users
    electricbikers
    moultoneers
    recliners etc

    So far nothing - in popular media terms bikes are only accessories in car and clothes ads

    D

    Posted 13 years ago #
  4. kaputnik
    Moderator

    in popular media terms bikes are only accessories in car and clothes ads

    or something you dig out the shed once a leap year to raise a bit of money for charidee. Then all your friends can ooh and aah at how difficult it is to ride a bike and how impressed they are with you*

    *footnote. I've nothing against this sort of thing. What bothers me is the way that the media sometimes treat cycling as some wierd niche activity that is so far out there that it is only for mentalists or the occasional charity challenge

    Posted 13 years ago #
  5. Arellcat
    Moderator

    moultoneers
    recliners etc

    I did have a bloke in a white flatbed Transit shout at me yesterday, "Why doncha buy a normal bike?", while I wound my way home, Bromptonstyle. Perhaps he was a Moultoneer. :-D

    Posted 13 years ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    "Perhaps he was a Moultoneer", no we ignore Bromptons (they dont have proper suspension).

    Posted 13 years ago #
  7. Morningsider
    Member

    Hello IWRATS. I agree with chdot that the most effective means of influencing political decision makers (senior officials are often at least as important as MSPs and councillors)is via SPOKES. In my opinion, SPOKES are more influential in Scotland than any equivalent cyle campaign elsewhere in the UK. They are the go-to cycle user organisation for Edinburgh Council and the Scottish Parliament amongst others.

    I also agree that the time is right to influence party manifestos which are in the process of being drafted. Write to or email Scottish party leaders, constituency and regional list MSPs and prospective candidates, encouraging them to commit to cycling. Make sure their replies are widely distributed - perhaps even post them this site (chdot might want to offer a view on this) so they can be held to any commitments post election. Will this work - I have no idea, but do think we need to try.

    Cycliing IS (currently) a niche activity, approximately 1-2% of Scottish residents are regular cyclists. Unless we can strongly sell our case (again!) - or form coalitions with other interest groups we are destined to remain a niche group.

    Personally, I feel the reason cyclists seem to provoke such ire is that we are a living rebuke to politicians and motorists etc. for their own political and personal failures to combat climate change, get fit, improve the urban realm and so on. Far easier to lambast us for jumping red lights or riding on the pavement than make the effort (political or personal) to increase cycling and combat these concerns. Just my view of course - it could be they just don't like us all personally.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    "chdot might want to offer a view on this"

    If you mean post replies here then YES.

    I think the 1-2% suffers from sampling error. Obviously it's more in Edinburgh.

    BUT minority/niche/nuisance 'we' have to try harder than the 'silent majority'.

    One problem with trying to engage with senior politicians is that messages get passed on to their officials for reply. These are the ones in things like 'sustainable transport' who might well agree with you.

    So it's often more effective to contact 'your' councillor/MSP.

    'We' have to make it clear we are not "cyclists" but people who choose to cycle because it's sensible (for all sorts of obvious/personal reasons) but we know relatives/friends (plus countless members of the 'general public') who are scared or generally discouraged by the state of the roads and the number of people who seem to think they have more right to take up more than you.

    Other problems are 'the media' who basically like controversy and politicians who like spending money on large projects.

    Whatever the merits of the tram, imagine any politician/official seriously suggesting spending the same sort of money on cycle facilities...

    The strange thing is 'we' have won the arguments - Scottish Government and CEC have 20 and 15% targets - but they won't provide the money to make it possible.

    10% for the whole of Scotland would probably mean about 30% in Edinburgh (centre at least).

    Imagine...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  9. LaidBack
    Member

    Arellcat I did have a bloke in a white flatbed Transit shout at me yesterday

    You should have told him to get a 'normal Transit' with bodywork, bald tyres and no indicators...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  10. Morningsider
    Member

    chdot - I agree that the cycling statistics produced by the Scottish Household Survey are not great due to the very small number of cyclists within the sample, but they are the best we have got.

    I also agree that writing to Government Ministers is often futile as the answers will be produced by civil servants. However, I think it is still worth contacting other party leaders and senior politicians as contct from "real people" rather than NGOs, lobbyists etc has an impact on politicians because so few (non-mad) people ever do so.

    Also, Scottish political parties are surprisingly small affairs (not exactly The West Wing) and I doubt any of them would have someone working solely on sustainable transport (or transport for that matter). So, yes contact your local MSP/councillor but also think about contacting senior politicians who might have an influence on party manifestos/budget commitments (for what they are worth).

    Posted 13 years ago #
  11. LaidBack
    Member

    chdot 'We' have to make it clear we are not "cyclists" but people who choose to cycle because it's sensible (for all sorts of obvious/personal reasons)

    I see a few businesses run by people who cycle. (Apart from people in the bike trade).

    Chances are they don't lobby as they are too busy.

    How many MSPs cycle?
    Many will note that cycling near our parliament is less than easy.

    One reason we have a 15 min interval train service to Glasgow is Holyrood.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  12. gembo
    Member

    IWRATS - make cycling the default journey to work for Edinburghers.

    Back when Beijing was Peking cycling was the default for all residents of that city. Now Copenhagen probably shades it. Some folks aspire to the 37% in the Danish capital.

    Every so often I get engaged in a chat (latest took place in the EIS head quarters yesterday) where I set out a way for someone who has asked to start using the bike as their default commute. It is possible to go from scratch or a lapsed position in Edinburgh because we have good off road routes to let the rusty build up confidence.

    This sort of bottom up approach can be complementary to pressure on politicians. The Tories have gone a bit car mental this week, so I do think we need to focus on Holyrood. Spokes occasionally venture on to this forum via DdF, always reasonable and to the point. I suppose it is whether a paradigm shift can occur or whether goals can be achieved incrementally. If I read you correctly you are after a paradigm shift.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  13. Dave
    Member

    I thought according to the Spokes surveys that cyclists make up to 20% of traffic in rush hour on routes like Lothian Road? Or am I just making that up?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

    "Or am I just making that up?"

    Not quite -

    "Overall, bikes rose from 14.4% of all vehicles to 14.7% between 8-9am. In that time slot, bikes comprised 17.9% of all northbound vehicles on Lothian Road and 22.3% northbound on Forrest Road."

    http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2010/05/spokes-may-traffic-count

    That's percentage of vehicles.

    Obviously not % of people (assuming some are buses). Government (local and national) targets for cycling talk about % of journeys. Don't know if this is vehicles or people.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  15. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Pedlars,

    This is all very interesting stuff, and I'm learning about the forum. Clearly community amongst cyclists is an important function, as are the links to Spokes and CTC. gembo has read me correctly though - I'm interested in a paradigm shift for local transport in Edinburgh. I think there will be one anyway as cars become prohibitively expensive for everyday use but it would be better to drive it rather than let it drive us. The advantage that I see us having is that there is (as far as I know) no form of solidarity amongst Edinburgh's car commuters.

    PS What was with the traffic this morning? Is Edinburgh host to the AGM of the International Federation of Subnormal Motorists or something?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    "I'm interested in a paradigm shift for local transport in Edinburgh"

    You might be interested in this then -

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1492

    Posted 13 years ago #
  17. SRD
    Moderator

    Paradigm shift among commuters or among city planners?

    It's sort of a chicken and egg question, I guess, and both rather long range, but important. I just don't think we'll get anywhere until the planners/developers etc really take these issues on board pro-actively rather than re-actively. And until the council is ready to really act - eg on-street parking for bikes in residential areas. Maintaining ASLs. Cycling mandatory in schools. Restricting car drop-offs at private and council-run schools. Such high-visibility actions would send a clear message, . We've also mulled over some ideas about pro-cycling advertising in the past.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  18. gembo
    Member

    SRD - Planners go with norms they don't create change anymore. (in this country). So we need to build up our base if we are to force them into better developments

    IWRATS - traffic been mental all week everywhere from west to east. Monday because of cyclist knockd off then broken lorry but all other days as I wound my way throught the tailbacks there never seemed to be a reason.

    the cyclist known as Fast Red light jumper of Slateford went througha light that had been red for bout half a second the other day. He really must a. know the sequences and b. feel very certain no other person in the city is ever going to be behaving like him coming the other way. He is a total individual. I would grant him access to this community [should he wish on, isn't on already, and I was the gatekeeper, if he toned it down a notch and only jumped lights changing from green to amber, he is fast but not fast enough IMHO]

    Posted 13 years ago #
  19. recombodna
    Member

    'You should have told him to get a 'normal Transit' with bodywork, bald tyres and no indicators...'

    Oi as a 'normal' transit driver I resent that comment. It's not a normal transit without rusty wheel arches and gaffa tape holding the bumper on as well.....

    Posted 13 years ago #
  20. Smudge
    Member

    Don't forget the week old copy of the Daily Hate(or similar) on the dash under a half bottle of Irn Bru... miss that and you'll be cast out by the white van community!

    Posted 13 years ago #

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