CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Questions/Support/Help

Why would my knee hurt?

(17 posts)
  • Started 9 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from Stickman
  • This topic is not resolved

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  1. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Quick background:

    I've a dodgy knee. Had the anterior cruciate ligament reconstructed about 10 years ago now, and generally it's absolutely fine, jus occasionally stiff (especially when the weather gets a bit cold and damp, fulfilling a nice stereotype which my other war wound also abides by).

    Bike background:

    My Kaffenback has been built for about 7 years now, and has had many incarnations, but one place that is limited in adjustment is saddle height due to the seatpost welding itself into the frame about 4 years ago.

    The issue:

    A month or so ago I swapped out the clipless pedals for flats. This may not actually be the problem, but as we'll see it seems a bit of a coincidence. After a week or so I started getting pain and weakness in my dodgy knee, and it seems to be worse the day after I've been out on the Kaff. I got thinking back to last year, when trouble with my knee got so bad I went to the doctor, got referred for an x-ray and so on. Trying to think back in more detail I'm pretty sure that also coincided with a change to flats - as it got towards more inclement weather I flipped back to clipless, and without me thinking any more about it I've had no knee issues for about 7 or 8 months.

    Bearing in mind the riding position is identical (as I can't move the seatpost up or down, and I haven't shifted the saddle about) is it possible that for some reason flats causes an issue for my knee that clipless doesn't? And why would this be?

    I'm going to test my theory by putting the clipless back on (sadly, I'd been enjoying the flexibility) and seeing if the pain disappears over the next wee while...

    Posted 9 years ago #

  2. dougal
    Member

    I would say flats encourage a lower ankle to ensure the pushing surface is horizontal or even tilted back. This would probably cause stretching resulting in knee pain.

    PS Not a doctor nor do I play one on the internet.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  3. MeepMeep
    Member

    If it is the change in pedals then it's likely to be linked to the fact that you've less freedom of movement in cleats than on flats when it comes to foot-on-pedal position.

    Could be the forces put through your ankle using flats affecting your established balance between your ACL and your MCL. Where across (width) the sole of your foot are you driving the pressure down on flats compared to where you've positioned your cleats on your shoe?

    Could be the defaulting position of your foot itself on the pedal. Is the pressure you're putting on the pedal on flats forward or backwards relative to where you'd be putting the pressure on the pedal using cleats?

    Could be the balance of push/pull during your pedal revolutions. Are you compensating for the lack of a pull you get at 7-1 with cleats by putting more force through at 1-7 on a clockface when you're on flats?

    Finally, perhaps your saddle needs to be lowered a small fraction when you're using flats. I had to put my saddle up when I moved from flats to cleats although I thought it should have made no difference.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  4. Greenroofer
    Member

    @WC - I'd been considering a post on exactly the same subject because I was coming to realise that I get a sore right knee when I ride the Brompton a lot (flats) or ride on flats on my commuter bike (which has two-sided pedals). I'd have thought that flats were always better because they let your foot move about on the pedal, but it's clear that it's not that simple.

    So, to throw some complexity into the mix, in my case with the two-sided pedals I can ride the same bike with the same shoes and the same set-up. If I ride on the flat side of the pedals I get a sore knee, but if I turn them over and clip in I'm fine.

    I'm not sure if that helps, beyond to say that you're not alone with this counter-intuitive problem.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  5. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    I think that's exactly what was bugging me - it seemed counter-intuitive - but dougal and MeepMeep have sown the seeds of very plausible explanations.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  6. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    This guide to cycling knee pain might help, WC.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  7. le_soigneur
    Member

    Maybe your pedalling style has become sloppy and with the flats having unlimited float, you are rotating your foot or knee on the power stroke? And your reconstructed knee cannot support the lateral movement under compression.
    When clipped-in, your foot does not have the freedom to rotate so your knee is always transferring the power vertically.
    Regardless, you are shirking the easy element to all this - not freeing up your seatpost. Much easier to improve your bike setup than manage a knee problem. Tsk ;)

    Posted 9 years ago #

  8. dougal
    Member

    There is apparently "a man" who specialises in stuck seatposts in the Edinburgh area. The guys at BikeCraft said that he takes away bikes that the shop mechanics can't manage and returns it a few days later after having worked his magic. All very proprietary, all very hush hush. It's probably Marmite.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  9. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I believe "the man" occassionaly posts here under the moniker Cyclops, see previous "stuck seat post" thread here; http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14115

    Posted 9 years ago #

  10. wingpig
    Member

    Several months into cleatage I tried flats and found my legs all wobbly where I'd lost stability, so I'd go with increased-strain-keeping-feet-right too. Do your shoes change, too? Didn't you buy new flats as you were out and about in non icy clef specific feet?

    Posted 9 years ago #

  11. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @Wilmington's Cow

    No idea on your knees, but the Bike Station has a device that can shift seatposts I would never have thought budgeable. Not pretty, not subtle but efficacious.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  12. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Hmmm, would be interested to see that - the only thing I haven't tried is the ammonia solution. Have done the whole loosening stuff (including in the bottle cage boss holes); old saddle gripped in a big vice and using the frame as leverage; even drilled a hole through the post and stuck a metal rod through, attaching another rod for added leverage, and still nothing. Have also ridden over Edinburgh's cobbles, setts and potholes without a tightened Seatpost collar for nigh on four years now...

    Posted 9 years ago #

  13. Nelly
    Member

    I had a problem a year or so back. Didn't think my post height was an issue, turned out it was resolved by a combo of saddle positioning (fore/aft) and handlebar angle.

    I say go simple, return to clipless for a week or so, then try flats with platform boots!

    Posted 9 years ago #

  14. Coxy
    Member

    You could try one of the bike fit places that use a knee-tracking laser (like Ronde). Try both sets of pedals and see if there is an obvious difference with the flats.

    The £80 I spent with them for a proper bike fit was the best £80 (for 3 hours) I have spent on a bike.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  15. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    For what it's worth looks like something upthread is correct. Popped the clipless pedals back on, rode into town and back yesterday, and there's been no reaction from the knee.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  16. ARobComp
    Member

    I got a sore knee the other day and realised that my saddle was very slightly out of alignment. Not noticeable while seated but enough!

    Posted 9 years ago #

  17. Stickman
    Member

    It's amazing how small changes to equipment can cause aches and pains.

    I was playing tennis last night and the coach noticed my grip was too big (I had been lazy and added extra layers of tape without removing the old one), which could explain some elbow pain I've been getting recently.

    Posted 9 years ago #

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