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JUST 1MPH TOO FAST AND YOU’RE NICKED: NEW ZERO TOLERANCE APPROACH TO SPEEDING

(21 posts)

  1. crowriver
    Member

    Now for some GOOD NEWS!

    "DRIVERS face being fined and even prosecuted for creeping over the speed limit by as little as 1mph under plans being drawn up by police in some parts of the country. The proposal would result in tens of thousands more speeding tickets being issued and force drivers to keep a far closer eye on their speedometers.

    Under the current system, contained in police guidelines, drivers are allowed a margin of error of 10% plus 2mph. That means, for example, that police won’t usually prosecute motorists travelling at up to 35mph in a 30mph zone. By the same calculation drivers travelling at up to 79mph on motorways are unlikely to be prosecuted.

    The guidelines were introduced in 2000 to take account of the possibility of inaccuracy in speed cameras. They were also intended to reassure drivers that the system was fair, rather than simply a money-raising racket.

    Now police in Scotland have announced that they are axeing the thresholds. From this autumn Scottish drivers going fractionally over the limit will receive formal warning letters. If they are stopped a second time, they will receive a £100 penalty notice and three penalty points or be reported for prosecution.

    The new procedures, approved by the Scottish government, will be tested in a six-month pilot project. Scottish police — unlike those in England and Wales — have never disclosed the margin of error they use, although it is thought to be similar to that of the rest of the country. If the pilot is successful in reducing accidents, as police hope, it may be adopted by other forces in the UK."

    http://www.driving.co.uk/news/just-1mph-too-fast-and-youre-nicked-new-zero-tolerance-approach-to-speeding/

    Posted 9 years ago #
  2. Snowy
    Member

    Good. Although - why wait till autumn, and why on earth do they need a 'pilot project' to enforce speed limits? Seriously?

    Start immediately. Word will soon get around.

    Wonder if Police Scotland will also consider enforcing a few 20mph residential limits.

    To put the 'money-making racket' whinging to bed once and for all, simply scrap monetary fines and just start taking licences away for increasing periods of time.

    We won't see speeding treated with the same social stigma as drunk driving (the oft quoted comparison) until all speeding becomes a proper criminal offence, not merely a bit of inconvenient paperwork resolved by writing a cheque.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  3. gkgk
    Member

    Published 14 July 2015. Must be halfway through the 6 month trial by now.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  4. dougal
    Member

    I always thought the margin of error was to account for in-car speedometers? Do they get validated as part of the MOT? Is there a way of calibrating them if they're wrong?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  5. steveo
    Member

    I guess speedo's are designed to read under so if you're sitting at 30 then you'll probably be doing 27-30. My last car was doing between 25-27 when I was sitting about 30 going through the speed signs at Carrick Knowe.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  6. acsimpson
    Member

    according to the article:
    "The law states that a car’s speedometer must not display a speed slower than that at which it is moving, though a large margin of error is allowed in the other direction."

    If the margin for error was to allow for speed camera inaccuracies surely the police could penalise a motorist travelling at 31mph as long as the speed camera said they were doing 35mph.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  7. Stickman
    Member

    The various speed signs in the wee Fife villages I passed through on Sunday all showed me going slower than my speedo said. From memory the one at Freuchie said I was doing 32 when my speed showed 35 (40 limit there) and the one at Dairsie showed 17 when speedo was around 22 (30 limit there,but narrow road)

    Posted 9 years ago #
  8. algo
    Member

    Depends also on your tyre diameter of course - it is possible and legal to fit bigger tyres than OEM which means the speedo can underread. Some snow tyre choices can be bigger - mine are 215/75/15 for example, but the originals are 195/70/15 so I know I have a 7.5% increase in indicated speed - this makes it roughly spot on according to GPS. Either way it is my responsibility to drive within the speed limit regardless of what the speedo says.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  9. dougal
    Member

    "regardless of what the speedo says"

    If you disregard what the speedometer says what are you using to inform your driving?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  10. algo
    Member

    @dougal - I am of course using the speedo to inform me of my speed, but what I mean is it would not be an excuse to say "but the speedo says I was doing 30" if I was caught speeding... it is my responsibility to drive within the speedlimit whatever it says is what I mean

    Posted 9 years ago #
  11. dougal
    Member

    According to the polis it's illegal to drive with a broken speedo.

    https://www.askthe.scottish.police.uk/content/Q601.htm

    The fine is better than a sixty quid slap on the wrist:

    http://www.motordefenceteam.co.uk/offence-guide/faulty-speedo.htm

    The speedometer was finally entered into the MOT in 2012 (!) according to the AA.

    http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing-repair/mot-changes-2012.html

    "The car will fail if a speedometer is not fitted, is incomplete, inoperative, has a dial glass broken/missing or cannot be illuminated."

    Posted 9 years ago #
  12. algo
    Member

    Indeed. FWIW I'm not suggesting I drive with an ineffective speedometer

    Posted 9 years ago #
  13. Cyclops
    Member

    Did this plan actually start in the Autumn as trailed? I'm sure we'd have seen lots of anguished cries in the press about "war on the law-abiding motorist" if people were getting fined for exceeding the speed limit by 1mph (or even just receiving a warning letter).

    As this is the first I've heard of this it suggests it's been quietly shelved or postponed.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  14. crowriver
    Member

    "Published 14 July 2015. Must be halfway through the 6 month trial by now."

    Indeed. Strangely we've not had any carmageddon stories in the EEN, etc. as a result.

    Could it be that the trial has had little or no effect? Or was it brought in to make the average speed cameras on the A9 more effective?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  15. acsimpson
    Member

    Average speed cameras do seem to be something which switches people's mindset from "how fast can I get away with" to "I'll drive at exactly the limit" so perhaps the trial is going on without us knowing.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  16. Blueth
    Member

    The fact probably is Algo that, like most, you have no idea whether or not you are driving with an ineffective speedometer, there being no official means to check the accuracy. The MOT only checks that it "works".

    It was always my custom on buying a vehicle to check the speedo accuracy using the measured half mile on the old road to Turnhouse that the police used to check theirs. Since they stopped using this it has fallen in to disrepair and has now disappeared. Using this was accurate enough with the tolerance allowed for manufacture but might not be if that disappears.

    It required an enormous amount of concentration to hold a vehicle precisely on a given speed for half a mile to carry out this check which is probably why the police did it in pairs so that one could be concentrating on the road. It wasn't something that could safely have been done by one person on a busier road.

    Those roadside indicators are hopelessly inacccurate, sometimes up and sometimes down from what the vehicle speedo, which presumably has consistent inaccuracy, says.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  17. slowcoach
    Member

    Police Scotland have this week published speeding offence data for April to Dec 2015. Down to 42688 from 48553 in April to Dec 2014. Breakdown by Council area also given.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  18. chdot
    Admin

    So -

    More people are obeying the law?

    There's less traffic?

    Or?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  19. crowriver
    Member

    We know that there's more traffic UK-wide (up 2%). Unlikely to be different in Scotland.

    I find the idea that more drivers are obeying the law rather fanciful.

    So the only reasonable conclusion is that Police Scotland are not enforcing the law as much as they used to. 12% less in fact, if you assume traffic remains the same, and law breaking roughly the same. If on the other hand each has increased by 2% or more, then Police Scotland's enforcement looks poor indeed.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  20. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I find the idea that more drivers are obeying the law rather fanciful.

    I find the idea that more drivers are obeying the law complete and utter rubbish, and as a vulnerable road user also rather insulting and suspiciously dishonest.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  21. gembo
    Member

    Much more red light jumping by motorists three will go through after it turns red. Much more stupid parking and driving.

    The RLJing triplets is new, the other bad driving is maybe linked to road works proliferating and causing jams that drivers try to get round etc.

    Speed cameras have possibly reduced speeding and drink driving is less common.

    Posted 9 years ago #

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