CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
"Ticket price war as Virgin targets Edinburgh to London rail route"
(20 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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"Nearly one in three passengers at Edinburgh Airport – Scotland’s busiest – fly to and from London"
Which is a completely ridiculous and unsustainable situation. Still, the SNP appear determined to make flying even cheaper...
Posted 9 years ago # -
The chipwrapper's figures don't really add up though. It says that 3 million travel between Edinburgh &. London but that 1in 3 passengers at the airport are on that route. Since the airport has 11 million passengers annually this implies that a minus figure use the train..
Posted 9 years ago # -
If you live near Waverley and your meeting is in central London then the train is already about the same time as the plane, unless. Suppose you have a fast track pass that lets yo skip the queue at the airport. Edinburgh to York on the train is a lovely journey. The tix called Scottish executive though pricey allow you to travel in comfort. Given my office is n the train station carpark I can do a morning's work, walk up to platform 11 n five mins, get on the noon train, do an afternoon's work (wi Fi etc) and still make a four forty five meeting.
Posted 9 years ago # -
The choice of whether you go by train or plane to London surely depends largely on your final destination.
If going to central London, or going to Kent say, on a connecting train, then you would go by train.
But if your final destination is Dubai, then most likely you'll fly.
So as usual the chipwrapper article is a load of nonsense.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Many years ago there was a thread comparing the total number of journeys from Scotland to London and plane was taking >6x the number of people than the train. Sustainable or not the rail network wouldn't be able to cope with 5x as many people trying to get into London at peak time.
Ah here's the thread: http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253
Posted 9 years ago # -
"So as usual the chipwrapper article is a load of nonsense."
Actually it's not bad, I was expecting just a reprint of a Virgin press release, but it's not. It's far from clear if what VIrgin wants will happen. Clearly lots of people fly to London. Most will have worked out optimum door-door journey time. Some will just look at prices - but probably not those who don't pay for their own trips.
"
Virgin is now taking on the air market it failed to crack as an airline. Its Little Red service, which included Edinburgh-Heathrow flights, folded last year.
...
Despite the name, Vtec is 90 per cent owned by Perth-based Stagecoach, and analysts at the HSBC bank claimed last month it was “falling behind its targets”.
Stagecoach has declined to comment.
"
Posted 9 years ago # -
Despite the name, Vtec is 90 per cent owned by Perth-based Stagecoach
Who conveniently also own the Megabus Edinburgh - London coach services.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Many years ago there was a thread comparing the total number of journeys from Scotland to London and plane was taking >6x the number of people than the train.
There's two glaring issues I have with that comparison.
Firstly - not all EDI - London passengers are going to London, in fact I'd wager a majority aren't, and are actually going elsewhere but much like Lothian Buses routes nearly all services along Princes Street, UK airlines route nearly all long-distance services through Gatwick or Heathrow.
Also, the train does one thing that planes can't easily do; pick up and drop off along the way. So the actually number of Edinburgh to London journeys is not representative of the number of passengers using the route between; many people will be getting off or on along the way.
So anyway, I'm not sure such a straightforward data set comparison is a great way to compare Edinburgh to London travel.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"So anyway, I'm not sure such a straightforward data set comparison is a great way to compare Edinburgh to London travel."
Presumably VT has more useful data.
There was a time when flying to London was 'higher status' than getting the train. Presumably some people still think that.
One (alleged) rationale for the tram was that it would get civil servants from Victoria Quay to the airport. If true, that could only be a tiny number of passengers!
So if this is mostly about 'business travellers' then it's the usual mix of time (regular 4 hour trains would make a small difference), convenience, comfort (the whole experience, not just seat/leg room) - and price.
VT should perhaps do a dynamic 'travel tomorrow' price that was a fiver cheaper than the 'competing' airline price.
I go to London a few times a year, but with enough flexibility and notice to get what is really a ridiculously low price. Unfortunately VT didn't keep the GNER system of 'points for free tickets'!
Of course it's not just about getting 'a bigger slice of the Ed-Lon market' its about getting 'enough' income - which is a complex mix of x passengers paying (on average) £y.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"So if this is mostly about 'business travellers' then it's the usual mix of time (regular 4 hour trains would make a small difference), convenience, comfort (the whole experience, not just seat/leg room) - and price"
Indeed.
My team travel a lot, most of it is into the London Airports, even if final destination is not London.
Price (booking early) is key, as is overall travel time - leader writers sometimes ignore the lengthy tube/train journeys many people need to take once they arrive in London by train.
I travel less these days, but most of my journeys end in Canary Wharf or The City - and an early booking to London City Airport / DLR trip is a lot cheaper and more convenient than going by train to Kings Cross and then enduring a horrible cross town journey.
Personally I prefer the train, but it just doesn't add up financially for my employer, or timewise for me.
Posted 9 years ago # -
On my rare forays to London with work, the "Scottish Executive" rail fare, which includes zone 1/2 underground is competitive with flying because you don't need to buy a Heathrow/Gatwick/Stanstead express at the far end and most people get a taxi to the airport at Early O' Clock on the company too.
It's also convenient for me because I'm a 20 minute walk / 10 minute cycle from Waverley, it's at least 30 minutes by taxi to the airport.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"I go to London a few times a year, but with enough flexibility and notice to get what is really a ridiculously low price."
Any hints on the cheapest options?
I usually get the bus but it's been a few years since I did that. Once you factor in taking wife/weans the car becomes a cheaper option.
Posted 9 years ago # -
There was a time when flying to London was 'higher status' than getting the train. Presumably some people still think that.
I don't think it is seen as higher status anymore, but force of habit is strong. Throw in the airmiles incentive and a lot of folk can't see reason to change.
More of the younger folk at my work seem to prefer to take the train.
It's certainly my preferred route, unless I have a rudely early meeting in the morning (before 10am), which is not achievable unless flying. However, in those circs I'm increasingly inclined to go down the night before (on the train).
If all goes to timetable, it's possibly 30 mins quicker by plane, door to door, but it's way more hassle, and the plane is more likely to suffer significant delays in my experience.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"However, in those circs I'm increasingly inclined to go down the night before (on the train)."
The Caledonian Sleeper gets in before 7am IIRC. Whether you can actually sleep on it is another story, it depends on a few variables...
Certainly that's what I use if I have to be in London in the morning.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Some folks get on with the Sleeper, others don't. I'm in the latter category, I'm afraid.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I find the plane cheaper if want a journey in the next week or so. Time wise takes around the same time if only take carry-on luggage, airport 30 mins before plane leaves, 50 minutes on plane to Luton about 50 minutes on the national express to Goldersgreen.
I am going to London in may, and will either get plane or train but last time got plane as much cheaper.
Not sure if the train overcharging the train may cost more to run than the plane, a lot of intensive infrastructure.
The bus is the cheapest last year got the bus for £10 pound to London but does take nearly 10 hours. If going with several people the car is the cheaper than the train or plane but may be best to park in Milton Keynes’s and get the bus in. Cannot imagine taking children on a 10 hour bus journey a lot of fun.
I may get the Caledonian sleeper down in May but will not be based on price as far more than the plane but I like the look of it.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Travelling with kids generally better on train as they can wander around, go to loo, buffet car, draw/play games on the table, watch the view from the window.
In contrast, in a plane there's so much waiting around: check-in, security, departures, then you're strapped into a seat with not much to do or see, everything locked away in a locker above your head. More waiting around at the other end if you have luggage. Okay someone might bring you a snack to your seat if you're lucky.
In theory, car is more convenient but again everyone strapped in, if on motorway the view is often pretty dull, have to wait for services before visiting loo, stretching legs; can't do much in the back. Also driver gets tired on long journeys. On plus side you can travel at your own pace.
Bus has many of the disadvantages of car but without the privacy. Also only stops at predetermined places. Chemical loos are horrible. Okay someone might bring you a snack to your seat if you're lucky (original Stagecoach to Londinium used to hand out free sarnies back in my student days). At least it's cheap.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@wfb. Cheapest train tickets come out about 12 weeks in advance although if you are travelling the whole route (Edi-Lon) then they come out 24 weeks in advance.
The trainline will send you an alert email when they are released so that you can get online and buy them straight away. All you need to do is plan your trip months in advance and put the details onto their website, you can then book on any of the rail booking sites you like.
The most popular trains can go up in price within hours of release but if as Chdot says you are flexible then you can normally find a reasonably priced train to suit for a few days/weeks after the launch.
As far as I'm aware the cheap tickets are always available at launch and prices are unlikley to go down. On the airlines meanwhile the popular flights will cost more at launch but can go down as well as up.
Posted 9 years ago #
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