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Alex Cole-Hamilton says he is on Radio Scotland tomorrow morning to make his case for partial reopening of the FRB.
He's also been on FB asking for views of his constituents - it might not be going the way he hoped...
Please do make your views known to him.
"it might not be going the way he hoped.."
Really?
I presume most motorists will support notion of 'more capacity & less congestion' (even if that's next to impossible.)
Depends if/when TS/SG decides to give in for political reasons.
OR will Nicola's new found interest in electric bikes and clean air change things(?)
He posted it in a private FB Group for Corstorphine - a friendly village hoping to get stories of missed appointments etc.
Several voices telling him to focus on other areas and several saying it won't work.
Sounds good.
I wonder how many Corstorphine people he thinks have appointments in Fife?
I think his concern is residents of South Queensferry, who have been caught up in the gridlock of people trying to avoid/minimise their queue for the bridge.
How would they benefit from more capacity/traffic??
I expect most SQ residents will soon be complaining about all the extra bridge viewers who arrive by car.
So it's a short term proposal?
"
“I think the time has come to consider opening up the Forth Road Bridge, even partially with a contra flow, to try to relieve some of these problems, just temporarily, until it is ready to take buses and the new bridge goes up to 70mph.
"
Yes. Short term only.
But that would delay the opening of the FRB to buses...
If it's opened short term it will then become impossible to close it later.
FWIW this was my email to AC-H
Dear Mr Cole-Hamilton
I understand that you are suggesting that the Forth Road Bridge should remain open to all vehicles. Although you say that this would be temporary, I'm sure you are aware that once this is permitted, the pressure to make it a permanent arrangement would be impossible to resist, and this would be exactly the wrong approach to take.
We need, in West Edinburgh particularly, incentives to get people out of their cars and into public transport, or active travel. The routes into and out of West Edinburgh are already congested and unpleasant enough and the consequent air pollution is shortening the lives of many of your constituents today; do you really want to make that worse in the future. The proposal to use the Forth Road Bridge as a public transport corridor is sound. It should be coupled with improved public transport links to commuting destinations in Edinburgh and Fife. When people see good facilities, they will use them.
The Queensferry Crossing was never planned to provide extra capacity, it was necessary because the old bridge had deteriorated to the point where it could no longer sustain the punishment it was getting from the current traffic load. With repairs it can support a public transport function as well as providing facilities for pedestrians and bicycles.
I hope that you will change your view on this matter and truly support a sustainable Edinburgh and Fife.
Yours sincerely
ih
Probably worth pointing out to the shameless political opportunist of the worst stripe that even a temporary reopening of the FRB would delay the contracted works with FCBC who presumably have their workies lined up to crack on and who will need paying whatever happens, so it could be extremely expensive to the SG. But hey, who cares about a few million when there's maybe a handful of votes in it for ACH?
Or more sensationally
Old bridge falls down as predicted because Mr Cole Hamilton intervened to allow both bridges to carry heavy traffic. Instead of the original sensible proposal
So it's all the drivers' fault(?)
"
Traffic Scotland (@trafficscotland)
11/09/2017, 06:56
Please use full length of merge on slip roads approaching @FRC_Queensferry
This will help ease congestion in the area.
"
Mr Cole-Hamilton can't lose this one. The new bridge will have a much-reduced carrying capacity for cars compared to the old one due to the 70mph speed limit so something is going to have to give;
1) His constituents are forced to leave earlier or even suffer the indignity of public transport, or
2) The old bridge is opened to private cars
If it's 1) it's rage all round, if it's 2) the limit to the rate of crossing will be accessing the feeder roads on either side and Mr Cole-Hamilton will rage that these are inadequate and must be 'up-graded'. The old bridge will duly break and Mr Cole-Hamilton will rage about that unless he's in charge of it then in which case he will make sad face.
At no point will Mr Cole-Hamilton be asked why so many people feel the need to cross the sea in private cars every day and if this is something we think is a desirable or sustainable practice.
If you set out a long-term vision with plans to achieve it people can attack them and you with ease. But if you hover over society waiting to drop on things which have inexplicably gone wrong in our unplanned society you're pretty much Teflon-coated.
It's politics as firefighters versus vultures instead of competing teams of architects.
Of course it's nothing to do with drivers ignoring the signs showing the speed limits gradually reducing *several miles from the bridge*, carrying on at 70mph+ until they hit the queues.
"The new bridge will have a much-reduced carrying capacity for cars compared to the old one due to the 70mph speed limit"
...
"things which have inexplicably gone wrong"
?
How much is carrying capacity of a road actually affected by the speed limit?
Oh the irony -
"
Traffic Scotland (@trafficscotland)
11/09/2017, 08:44
#BeAware
Halbeath P&R is full so please #PlanAhead
@TheForthBridges @transcotland @StagecoachEScot #edintravel
"
What is the speed limit on the old bridge?
I think this is going to confuse drivers
Caught doing 70 on the old bridge, sorry officer I thought I was on the new bridge?
70 mph on a bridge over an estuary with high winds etc
Gonna be car-nage
Monday morning 'rush' hour, all fine then -
"
Traffic Scotland (@trafficscotland)
11/09/2017, 08:47
*UPDATE* at 8:47 @FRC_Queensferry congestion
Traffic running freely on the S/B approach.
@TheForthBridges @transcotland #edintravel
"
Obviously connected, but will anyone in power bother to join the dots?
"Traffic Scotland (@trafficscotland)
11/09/2017, 08:44
#BeAware
Halbeath P&R is full so please #PlanAhead
@TheForthBridges @transcotland @StagecoachEScot #edintravel"
"
"
Traffic Scotland (@trafficscotland)
11/09/2017, 08:47
*UPDATE* at 8:47 @FRC_Queensferry congestion
Traffic running freely on the S/B approach.
@TheForthBridges @transcotland #edintravel
"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-41223808
Mr Cole-Hamilton, Edinburgh West MSP, said: "With such a fantastic structure there was always going to be an addition to traffic due to tourists wanting to see the new structure.
"However, it is clear that this is having a material impact on people's livelihood with some commuters from Fife missing half a day of work due to the excessive build up of traffic.
"To help those who depend on free flowing traffic to on from Fife Transport Scotland should consider delaying the work to the Forth Road Bridge and keep it open until the 'tourist boom' of the new bridges passes."
Later, on BBC Radio's Good Morning Scotland programme, Mr Cole-Hamilton said: "My Call to Transport Scotland is to say 'before you start digging up the old Forth Road Bridge for the much-needed repairs - which they say are going to take six to eight weeks to conclude - then let's just make sure that this isn't just small teething problems'.
"If there is a material problem with the road layout of the bridge we have a release valve in the form of the Forth Road Bridge."
Worth noting the road will be variable speed limit, so if 50mph allows more traffic across at peak times, it's easy for them to manage that.
The bridge/surrounding roads may well end up 50mph at peak times and 70mph at other less busy times.
Most drivers accept that you couldn't do 50 on the old bridge at peaks time, so the likelyhood of 70 is remote.
Ignore all the political points scoring, the new bridge will manage the traffic flow fine once people are used to the new layout, and stop gawking at the structure.
"How much is carrying capacity of a road actually affected by the speed limit?"
Good question. From what I've seen, the theoretical answer if the traffic is free-flowing (ie able to achieve the speed limit) is essentially no effect (ie same number of cars transiting per unit time) if they adhere to driving rules ie 2s/3s gap per car.
The answer from all the empirical studies I've seen appears to suggest that capacity is actually reduced by higher speed limits due to sharp braking/accidents etc. Hence 'managed' motorways
How much is carrying capacity of a road actually affected by the speed limit?
My fag-packet calculation makes it three seconds between cars at 40mph and four seconds between cars at 70mph for alert drivers in the dry.
It's more for lorries and in the wet.
"Worth noting the road will be variable speed limit, so if 50mph allows more traffic across at peak times, it's easy for them to manage that."
This usually looks quite effective heading through Glasgow on the [M,A]8[(M)], when (most of the time) the variable limits slow things down well in advance of meeting the congestion, resulting in slow but unceasing movement rather than whoosh-park-crawl-park-crawl, but you never know if the times when it appears to not be working are due to more vehicles or properly gummed-up junctions and so on rather than people not obeying the variable limits.
How many tourists, gawpers and sightseers decide to drive over the Queensferry Crossing at rush hour? Not many, I would wager.
Any initial confusion for regular commuters should last a day or two at most and irregular users should be no more confused than they were using the old FRC. Buses using the QC shouldn't be an issue, as there are so few of them.
I imagine people are just disappointed that for £1,350,000,000 all they got was a boring old bridge, with the usual old congestion and not some sort of wormhole straight to their office chair.
I drove across a couple of weekends ago, during the open-closed period of the new bridge. I think it would be utter chaos north bound at the Fife end if both sets traffic were trying to use the new layout, I was glad it was still 40 as I was fairly confused by the sea of tarmac with cones taking you over the various lanes until you hit the original motorway.
Colleague who comes here from Fife on occasions reports no congestion this morning (unlike previous reports recently).
My fag-packet calculation makes it three seconds between cars at 40mph and four seconds between cars at 70mph for alert drivers in the dry.
Is that based on stopping distances?
So 1200 cars/lane/hour at 40mph and 900 cars/lane/hour at 70mph (assuming 3600 seconds in an hour).
I wonder how much of the congestion might have been caused by commuters who normally take the train deciding to drive instead because the new bridge would make it so much quicker?
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