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"Queensferry Crossing project ‘months behind schedule’ "

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  1. wingpig
    Member

    The overall-personal-impact-cost is sort of available when booking rail travel - the overall journey time and number of changes are displayed, or should at least be readily available. It's kind of visible when using something generic to plot a multi-modal route, such as Google Maps' insertion of walking times between bus stops. It's invisible when booking flights as they don't generally show you the arrival/check-in delay, nor the expected time required to de-plane, shuffle through a series of corridors, find a carousel, wait for a bag, queue up to be visually examined by people with hats and guns and so on, which is sort of necessary if there's any time-constrained connection process to book as well.

    For road route-finding (for motor cars) it used to be more visible - there are still "avoid tolls" options but back in the days of AutoRoute Express there was an "avoid motorways" option. I assume other people will tweak routes in the way I do to avoid things perceived as more costly, such as troublesome roundabouts or stupid wee bits which go through a series of acute-angled turns through housing estates because an unintelligent mapping process determines that it shaves 20m off the journey - my most popular ignore-the-routefinder process is to take the bypass from Leith to Glasgow-and-beyond as it's a much simpler and less pedestrian-risk-causing stop-starting drive compared to faffing about with Junction Street, Ferry Road and so on.

    Bike-route-mappers at least have their three options, though they still only show overall distance/time rather than other costs such as exposure-to-thundering-traffic, sweaty hills, pain-in-the-face-NCN-wiggles-through-clonehouses and the like. "Fastest" doesn't always avoid traffic-lit junctions in favour of parallel routes and I don't know if you can tweak "shortest" to include "I'm fine dismounting and hopping up a few steps if there's a pedestrian cut-through available".

    Posted 1 week ago #
  2. acsimpson
    Member

    @Hankchief, That sounds like a copy and past reply rather than something addressing any specific issues you raised. I wonder if others who have contacted him have had the same paragraph. I plan to email him tonight so will see what he says.

    Regarding the pricing issues we have with transport there are several layers that I see which could be altered to improve matters.

    1) Although total costs of motoring can make public transport a viable option the incremental costs of motoring once you already own, insure and service a car are so minor that public transport is often prohibitively expensive. Of course we all know cycling is cheaper even than incremental driving costs but does have higher entry costs than public transport.

    2) Stamp Duty (LBTT as we now call it). I live in Edinburgh and work in Fife. If I decided to move to Fife I would pay between 6 months and a years income in tax. If I then changed jobs and moved back I would be paying the same. If I was to buy a cheap car, pay all the associated costs and drive to work every day (I don't and hope I never will) it would still take years before the costs added up to what moving house can cost an average family, if you are already a two car family you might return to the same place financially.

    Posted 1 week ago #
  3. HankChief
    Member

    https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/topical-questions-september-12-2017

    ACH asking Humza about QC congestion. From 14.08

    1. General question

    2. Public Transport & cycles

    3. Opening FRB to buses & taxis

    Other questioners follow...

    Posted 6 days ago #
  4. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    2) Stamp Duty (LBTT as we now call it).

    There should be no transaction taxes at all. They're unhelpful, counter-productive and easy for the rich to avoid.

    Posted 6 days ago #
  5. Stickman
    Member

  6. ejstubbs
    Member

    The QC doesn't look too bad northbound as of 17:30 tonight, at least according to Google Maps' traffic overlay. The M90 isn't tailed back nearly as far as it was last week. Southbound looks a bit sticky, various shades of red as far back as the admiralty roundabout. Maybe someone's broken down/had an accident.

    It does look as if the congestion last week could well have been down to high volumes of rubberneckers.

    Posted 6 days ago #
  7. bax
    Member

    Three is not enough to solve the congestion we need four

    Fourth the Forth at South Queensferry

    that's the spirit gembo, but why stop there ?

    FIVE FOR FIFE !

    TUNNEL FOR VICTORY

    Posted 6 days ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    "

    It would be misguided though to see the Queensferry Crossing as a panacea for motorists frustrated with their commute across the Forth.

    The new road bridge was not designed to carry any more traffic than the last one. And in fact is likely to generate more traffic as it kick-starts development around Rosyth.

    Motorists will appreciate the bridge more in the coming months if it lives up to its “windproof” billing and remains open during severe weather.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/comment-queensferry-crossing-won-t-solve-all-our-forth-road-woes-1-4557221

    Posted 6 days ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

    "

    “Somebody’s not thought this through, that’s our general view.”

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/call-to-improve-road-layout-to-cut-queensferry-crossing-delays-1-4557439

    Posted 6 days ago #
  10. gembo
    Member

    @bax I am with you but also want hovercraft that takes cArs, a ferry and a monorail. The people of the kingdom need more options to help them congest the streets of edinburgh

    Posted 6 days ago #
  11. crowriver
    Member

    @gembo you forgot a short "hopper" air service between Leuchars and Edinburgh Airport for business travellers residing in the East Neuk. Use a cargo aircraft with large rear ramp so that drivers can "roll on, roll off" the plane straight onto the tarmac apron, thence to the A8 and into a prime free on-street parking place on the western edge of the CPZ before the plebs in Inverkeithing have even got off the slip road onto the bridge. A quick black cab ride to the city's legal and financial services hub and then a working breakfast with the new clients just in from Houston.

    Some would say take the train, but you can't beat the feeling of privacy and personal space in your very own classic motor car, eh?

    Posted 6 days ago #
  12. gembo
    Member

    @crowriver yes and also if anyone remembers The Tomorrow People a free Jaunt Belt for all Fife folk.

    Posted 6 days ago #
  13. crowriver
    Member

    Yes, I have the theme tune as an ear worm.

    Bad-da-de-doo, bad-dad-did-dee-doo; Bad-da-de-doo, bad-dad-did-dee-doo;; Wah-weee-woo; wee-woo; Wah-wah wee woo-woo; Bam, bam bam, bidoo, Woo; wee woo-woo, Wpo Wah wheee... Bad-da-de-doo, bad-dad-did-dee-doo; Bad-da-de-doo, bad-dad-did-dee-doo;; (fade out).

    Posted 6 days ago #
  14. crowriver
    Member

    Just in case anyone is not as old as gumbo and I:

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Flash Videos

    Posted 6 days ago #
  15. Baldcyclist
    Member

    I wonder how many vehicles are actually going over it, and if that number is substantially different to the previous crossing.

    I have the joy of trying to go over it tomorrow to be in Livingston for 9am (with ladders, and dust sheets, and painting stuff so train not an option).

    Posted 6 days ago #
  16. acsimpson
    Member

    Back in the 1960's there were at least 4 crossings dedicated to motor vehicles at Queensferry:

    Robert The Bruce
    Queen Margaret
    Mary Queen of Scots
    and
    Sir William Wallace

    So really another 2 crossings shouldn't be considered an upgrade.

    Posted 6 days ago #
  17. acsimpson
    Member

    Perhaps it's time to consider removing the passenger trains from the First Bridge and operating a Roro train shuttle between Inverkeithing and Edinburgh Gateway. It would boost passenger numbers at the Gateway too.

    Posted 6 days ago #
  18. gembo
    Member

    From discussion here it is obvioys that something has to be done as one new bridge is clearly not enough to reduce congestion

    Posted 6 days ago #
  19. Baldcyclist
    Member

    Seems to be back to normal, we got from Burntisland to Livingston in 55 minutes this morning. We bit of a tailback on the approach.

    Posted 6 days ago #
  20. ejstubbs
    Member

    Really? Google Maps is again showing minimal congestion on the QC this morning. A little bit of amber on the southbound approach - hardly surprising given that that's the major flow at this time of day - and green all the way northbound.

    The bridge wasn't built to reduce congestion - other than that which would have arisen had a replacement for the FRB not been built. It was built to be a bridge where there wouldn't have been one at all, given that the FRB was no longer fit for purpose.

    The opportunity was taken to deploy intelligent speed limits on the new bridge and its approach roads in a bid to manage the congestion that was anticipated at peak times, given that the new bridge was always intended to be a 70mph motorway. The way it's behaving just now it looks as if it's behaving much as the old FRB did. It might or might not improve on that when the speed limit is raised - I guess we'll see when it happens.

    This ongoing stramash about immediate fixes being needed for congestion on the new bridge seems to be driven by a combination of the problems on the first few days - which were almost certainly due to sightseers, and really do seem to have pretty much gone away since - and the perverse desire that seems to exist in the UK as a whole for using the smallest little hiccup to diss an entire project.

    Posted 6 days ago #
  21. Baldcyclist
    Member

    Yes back to *normal, about a 10 minute delay on approach from Admiiralty which is pretty standard. We left Burntisland at 8:05, and parked up in Livingston just before 9.

    Mind you I don't drive over the bridge very often in peak time traffic, but on the odd occasion I do it's pretty much like this.

    Posted 6 days ago #
  22. Iain McR
    Member

    Matt

    Posted 6 days ago #
  23. ejstubbs
    Member

    @Baldcyclist: For clarification, my "Really?" was intended as a response to gembo's "...it is obvioys that something has to be done..." comment. You just managed to sneak in between our posts!

    Posted 6 days ago #
  24. bax
    Member

    @ejstubbs

    you'll need to delve back upthread a wee bit to witness the origins of gembo's satirical polemic

    Posted 6 days ago #
  25. crowriver
    Member

    @ejstubbs, aye I think the dry irony of gembo's response has whooshed overhead there. If you put quote marks around it this could have come from the mouth of a prominently opportunist Lib Dem MSP who's been making noises in the media these past few days.

    I think I should write to him proposing the air "hopper" service between Leuchars and Edinburgh Airport and see if he bites.

    Posted 6 days ago #
  26. ejstubbs
    Member

    Ah, OK. It is obvious that this forum needs a menu of animated emoticon graphics.

    (That was irony, by the way. I'm not a fan of the little yellow-faced*...er...faces.)

    * This is not a racist comment, by the way.

    Posted 6 days ago #
  27. bax
    Member

    Posted 6 days ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

  29. gembo
    Member

    See if it is windy and the FRB is closed, buses and cyclists should be allowed on the QC

    Posted 3 days ago #
  30. Frenchy
    Member

    Here's my writeup. Not quite "months behind schedule", but getting there.

    The plan was to cycle or walk across as many of the bridges spanning the River Forth as possible in one weekend. On the first day, I'd walk across the new Queensferry Crossing, then cycle to Doune, where I had booked a B&B. On the second day, I'd cycle up to to the source of the Forth at Aberfoyle and then return to Inverkeithing, where I'd get on a train to Edinburgh to cross one more bridge.

    Day 1

    Our Queensferry crossing time was 3:20pm. We cycled along the canal from Meggetland to Hermiston P&R, which was our allocated travel hub. Nothing noteworthy on the way, but that "Slateford Snake" will be very useful if it comes into existence.

    The Queensferry Crossing Experience (Bridge #1) ran very smoothly - we were taken by bus to the south side of the bridge, walked across the bridge at our own pace and then a bus took us from the north side back to Hermiston. The weather co-operated and we crossed the bridge in just under an hour. I was aiming to make it to my B&B in Doune by half past eight, when the kitchen closed, so we didn't faff around too much on the bridge.

    It was just after 5pm when I Left Hermiston just after 5pm, and took Gogar Station Road to the A8, then went via Winchburgh and Linlithgow to Grangemouth. First time I've been down Gogar Station Road - it's fantastic! I was mainly keeping head down and trying to get to Doune by half past eight, but without putting in so much effort that I wouldn't survive Day 2. Spotted a dead buzzard in a field near Grangemouth :(

    Bridge #2 was also the final one of Day 1 - the Clackmannanshire Bridge. It's rather pleasant to cycle across, with a wide cycle path. On the north side, I crossed from Fife into Clackmannanshire, then made my way along the back roads to Bridge of Allan and eventually Doune.

    The midges came out around half past seven, which made the last stretch less fun, but I also came face to face with two different fawns in between Bridge of Allan and Doune.

    Didn't quite make it to the B&B by half past eight, and the kitchen had indeed closed. But they were able to give me a plate of soup and a couple of pints of 80 shilling.

    Day 2

    Big breakfast in the B&B (Woodside Hotel, I should say), and back on the road by half past eight. Bit chilly early doors, and was wishing I'd brought some longer sleeves, but soon warmed up. The A84 south was fairly quiet, and I made good time to Kippen. I took the B-road detour to Kippen in order to minimise time on the main roads, but at that time on a Sunday morning it wasn't really necessary (and if I'd known Kippen was up a hill I wouldn't have bothered).

    I crossed the first Forth bridge of Day 2 (Bridge #3), near Gargunnock, without even realising it.

    More back roads and Bridge #4 past Monteith/Inchmahome, where I startled a heron, and then into Aberfoyle.

    I went up to Loch Ard, took a couple of photos, then turned for home. Bridge #5 was the old stone bridge just east of Loch Ard, which I crossed, then crossed back again to take the main road back to Aberfoyle. Turned right before entering the town centre, and crossed Bridge #6 at Kirkton. Some off-road paths round Doon Hill took me to Bridge #7. After crossing, I briefly followed an NCN 7 cycle path south, parallel to the main road. Crossed Bridge #8, then doubled back to the main road to cross Bridge #9. Turning right, more off-road paths (including a short stretch of slate!) along the old Aberfoyle-Buchylvie railway line, which has a fairly new wooden footbridge (Bridge #10) about halfway to Buchylvie.. This Aberfoyle-Buchlyvie stretch was definitely not designed for road bikes, and I was counting myself lucky to get through it without a puncture.

    From Buchylvie, I took the main road east. Managed to miss the turn off to Bridge #11, which is about a mile down a farm track just past the turn off to Kippen. Doubled back, found my way again, and crossed the bridge. A collie barked at me a few times, but she turned out to be incredibly friendly. I doubt she gets many visits from cyclists.

    This time I took the main road on the way east, rather than the uphill detour to Kippen, then the back roads (and Bridge #12 on the B822) to Stirling.

    Just before Stirling, I crossed the old bridge (Bridge #13) beside the A84, then doubled back to cross the A84 bridge (Bridge #14), and then doubled back again to cross the old bridge again. Crossing the A84 beside Dobbie's wasn't particularly fun, but I was only on it for 100m or so, before turning off to cross under the M9 (Bridge #15). Locked my bike to a railing and walked across the footbridge/pipeline (Bridge #16) beside the M9 bridge.

    Through the Raploch, across Stirling Bridge (Bridge #17), then doubled back to cross the A9 bridge (Bridge #18), then crossed under both rail bridges (Bridges #19 and #20). Got a coffee, some cake and refilled water bottles in the Italian café near the train station.

    Bridge #21 was the footbridge to Cambuskenneth. I then had to go down the A91 dual carriageway (and Bridge #22), which wasn't as bad as I'd feared, as it has a fairly wide shoulder. I certainly wouldn't like to go down it regularly, though, and was glad to not be turning right at the roundabouts.

    From there, I mainly followed NCN 76 again. This is a truly fantastic route in parts, but also has some less-than-fantastic stretches (mainly where it follows farm tracks, but there is also a really nasty gate just north of Cowie, which I struggled to get my perfectly normal bike through).

    Bridge #23 was the Kincardine Bridge, which is slightly less pleasant than the Clackmannanshire, since it has a couple of narrow points, and I got lost finding my way back on to NCN 76 at the north end.

    Took NCN 76 along the north side of the Firth, stopping to finish my sandwiches and snacks in Culross.

    That wee hill on NCN 76, just east of Limekilns, is a right scunner after 250km of cycling, by the way.

    Got very lost trying to find my way onto the FRB. No hint at all that the western footway is closed until you're almost at it, then a severe lack of diversion signs guiding you to the east side. Lots of waiting at toucan crossings too.

    Crossed the FRB (Bridge #24) in both directions, and made it to Inverkeithing just as a train was pulling in, so I didn't have time to buy a ticket before boarding. And no one came to sell me one, so the train journey over Bridge #25 was free!

    I then had possibly my slowest journey ever home from Waverley. Snails would have overtaken me going up Market Street.

    Total distance for the weekend ended up being 265 km (165 miles). Fair chuffed with that.

    Posted 3 days ago #

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