umm so i saw 3 buses on the QFC - why are these not using the FRB now?
Depends on their route, doesn't it? Not sure if privately hired buses are supposed to use FRB or QC, too.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
"Queensferry Crossing project ‘months behind schedule’ "
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Posted 6 years ago #
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Putting the QC in perspective. From National.
"Comparing the crossing to the Bay Bridge East Span which connects Oakland to San Francisco in California, the forum’s analyst Cameron Bell (pictured right) of the American University of Cairo pulls no punches.
He wrote: “The Queensferry Crossing – a three-tower, cable-stayed bridge with a length of 1.7 miles – opened in early September, well within budget and with a manageable eight month time delay.
“This is a rare occurrence among bridges. According to research at the University of Oxford’s Saïd Business School, nine out of 10 fixed links (bridges and tunnels) suffer an average cost overrun of 34 per cent and a time delay of roughly two years.
“Contrast the Queensferry bridge with that of the Bay Bridge in California, which connects the city of San Francisco to Oakland. The American bridge – a self-anchored single tower suspension bridge with a length of 2.2 miles – blew its budget, costing $6.5 billion, and took roughly 24 years to complete, nearly a decade past its initial projected completion date.
“Conversely, the Queensferry, comparable in scope to the Bay Bridge, took roughly 11 years to plan and build at almost a quarter of the price. The Bay Bridge cost estimate drifted upwards through its life: it started at $1bn (in 1996) and was revised upwards several times: to $1.3bn (1997); $2.6bn (2001); $5.5bn (2005); and finally to the actual cost of $6.5bn (actual outturn cost in 2015).
“The pain has not gone away since the opening of the bridge: costly litigation and quality disputes continue,” he added. “Meanwhile, San Francisco commuters pay the price at the tolls every day.”
Posted 6 years ago # -
The bay bridge east span is a 10-lane wide (plus peds and cyclists - http://baybridgeinfo.org/path), 2.2 mile long, self-anchored single tower suspension bridge designed to withstand major earthquakes. The only thing it really has in common with the Queensferry Crossing is that it is a big bridge. Also, I suppose most of it came from China and American Bridge were one of the main contractors.
Plus, it's a toll bridge - so at least some of that huge cost will be recouped from users.
Interesting article here:
Posted 6 years ago # -
Great that it came in under budget. Rather ironic that it wasn’t actually necessary.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Well, it would be too much to expect for the National not to big up the postives in line with the SNP line on things and play down any negatives. Would it not?
You'd be almost forgiven for thinking that Lib Dems and Tories were stirring up motorists' ire about piddling wee queues of traffic and setting the agenda, forcing SNPers to respond defensively.
The political calculus appears to be Roads=Good; VFM Roads=DoublePlusGood.
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Was that a revised policially influenced budget or the first offer from the lowest bidder?
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It seems that two approaches to price estimating were taken for these projects.
Forth Crossing: Produce initial plans for gold-plated project with hugely inflated price estimate (£3.bn to £4.2bn - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7152186.stm). Cut down project scope and reduce estimate - instant massive saving.
Bay Bridge: Massively underestimate costs to gain project approval and then slowly increase estimates as the true costs become apparent, with many increases caused by political interference in the project and subsequent changes in scope (as with the Scottish Parliament).
Posted 6 years ago # -
@crowriver - Well, it would be too much to expect for the National not to big up the postives in line with the SNP line on things and play down any negatives. Would it not?
I agree - National is maybe the only printed media outlet that believes we have the skills to self govern Scotland. It's also resolutely anti-fascist and supports green and land reform issues.
Not perfect but tries to re-balance the 'anti-SNP / just ignore the Greens' line taken by media.
It does have a 'supporting Indy' byline so is clearly biased or mainstream too early :-)Posted 6 years ago # -
"Not perfect but tries to re-balance the 'anti-SNP / just ignore the Greens' line taken by media."
I have no problem with that.
Where I take issue is when the paper tries to defend questionable infrastructure spending decisions by quoting a report by an apparent "expert" asserting the QC was cost effective compared to some random example from California which had a completely different design brief and construction technique.
I won't bother you with the rather cheerleading hubristic "Wha's like us" tone of the National article itself.
Here's that report in full:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/11/what-america-can-learn-from-a-bridge-in-scotland/
Who is Cameron Bell anyhow and what is his expertise in bridge building?
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Cameron is a researcher at the American University in Cairo. Previously, Cameron has served as the special assistant and aide to former U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice; associate to the CIO of leading Arab builder Consolidated Contractors Company, S.A.L. (CCC Group); and consultant for Qatari Diar, Qatar’s state-backed real estate developer. His business writings have been published by the Stanford Graduate School of Business and Engineering News-Record (ENR). Cameron holds a master of science in Civil and Environmental Engineering from Stanford University, a master of public policy from the University of Oxford (Balliol College), and a bachelor of arts with honors, also from Stanford University.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/authors/cameron-j-bell/
Before returning to academia, Cameron was an associate for four years to the CIO of leading Arab builder Consolidated Contractors Company, S.A.L., where he specialized in systems analysis. His team developed best practices in the management of project data on a range of megaprojects throughout the Arab region, including LNG terminals, ports, airports, integrated gas developments, and petrochemical facilities. Previously, Cam was special assistant and aide to Dr. Condoleezza Rice, former U.S. Secretary of State. He researched and helped write two New York Times bestselling memoirs for Dr. Rice, in addition to assistance with her global speaking and teaching engagements. Cameron began his career with work at the White House, a hedge fund consultancy, and millennial media company Mic. He is a member of the Oxford Gulf and Arabian Peninsula Studies Forum (OxGAPS) and the American-Australian Leadership Dialogue.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@crowriver - yes they do go tabloid every so often. Their front page on 11th had the bridge top and Kezia's new job as Labour's member for the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. Headline 'Get Kez out of there!' Glum pic of Ms Dugdale.
Other media would be on the NHS Scotland in meltdown mode that day.
@morningsider - that's a fair answer and the kind of letter they should print. @stiltskin - I wasn't keen on bridge either. Not owning a car I'd rather see rail, bus and cycling improvements.
National had Patrick Harvie in today pointing out that NYC is much more ambitious than Holyrood or Westminster.
http://www.thenational.scot/news/15823232.Scotland_is_left_behind_by_New_York___s_climate_action/It's these contributions and some of the news ignored by the usual suspects I enjoy. The National also has no car ads (in fact it's virtually ad free in paper form!). Despite many SNP voters driving a lot.
Posted 6 years ago # -
From morningsiders link
"The new bridge, which will run to a point west of South Queensferry, will consist of a two-lane carriageway with hard shoulders and pedestrian and cycle access.
It will also allow for the introduction of a light rail or guided bus system."
I guess dropping the bike lanes saved a billion early on.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I prefer Bella Caledonia to the National. I would not use it as a source of information. Same as I would avoid daily mail or Scotsman as all of thes organs present a biased perspective.
Posted 6 years ago # -
"I guess dropping the bike lanes saved a billion early on."
Exactly.
It's a motorway, a giant expensive sop to motorists. And yet they're still not happy, grumbling about wee queues at peak travel times.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Public transport part of problem -
“
“A lot of people are telling me how it’s impacting on them. Some people are having to work from home or take the car into Edinburgh, and a lot of people have childcare issues.
“
https://www.fifetoday.co.uk/news/commuters-hit-back-at-scotrail-over-poor-service-1-4658631
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Posted 6 years ago #
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Posted 6 years ago #
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perhaps they should have thought of that before they dug a bloody long tunnel.....
that hardly anyone uses....
Posted 6 years ago # -
@rider73
They did think of that in 1981.Posted 6 years ago # -
A bridge would be better as could cycle over and look at the view, unless of course it was the Queensferry crossing with no path
Posted 6 years ago # -
wow now imagine that on a cycle tour! they should put a wee coffee shop booth half way over just for cyclists / pedestrians
actually they probably would do on the French half, with little bar seats and fresh croissants and a wee inner tube dispenser machine....
and on the brits side, would be full of "fast food" litter from car drivers throwing it of the window and continuing "cyclists dismount" signs as they uk side would be in a continual state of repair....
Posted 6 years ago # -
@rider73
Think you are wildly optimistic.
Being realistic, the cycle lane would end without warning 5m into the British side.
Posted 6 years ago # -
It would still be part of the National Cycle Network for all that.
Posted 6 years ago # -
“
Road users are being given advance notice the Queensferry Crossing will become a designated motorway from 1 February 2018.
“
https://www.theforthbridges.org/news/queensferry-crossing-to-become-motorway/
Posted 6 years ago # -
Well this is good news, as long as they don't close both paths at the same time!
https://www.scotsman.com/news/forth-road-bridge-to-get-first-paint-job-since-1964-1-4669130
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Posted 6 years ago #
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perhaps its me - but there is something about standing on a ferry with a bike up against its railings and taking a moment to look out across the sea (before realising how cold your exposed legs are getting)
that would make a lovely commute to work ;-)
Posted 6 years ago # -
“
Police Scotland have said there are no plans to introduce fines to drivers who wrongly use the Forth Road Bridge.
The news comes despite an exclusive story from Forth One which revealed that over 100 vehicles are wrongly crossing the Forth Road Bridge every day despite it only being open to public transport.
“
Posted 6 years ago # -
"Tim Shallcroft, from road safety group IAM Roadsmart slammed the dangerous practice from drivers: “It’s not only a public transport corridor it is opened up to pedestrians and cyclists. That means there will be a much greater presence of much more vulnerable road users on the bridge."
The only thing worse than IAM Roadsmart being so dumb that they have a rent-a-quote guy with so little clue about major infrastructure is that a local paper (Diane King) published this quote and didn't realise it is such nonsense.
Of all the places to talk about following the rules to keep pedestrians safe this is perhaps the most irrelevant place they could have picked.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I can take some flyers over the water to the 2 shops in Inverkeithing and Planet Velo in Dunfermline. I'll eventually be able to pick some up from Harts but that may not be until next weekend. If anyone is able to get some to me (East Craigs) before that I would be grateful. Alternatively I can collect them this side of town but not during business hours.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Oops wrong thread on the second of those. I've sourced an unofficial local supply of flyers so when a mod sees this feel free to delete the wrong message (and this one).
Posted 6 years ago #
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