"Queensferry Crossing project ‘months behind schedule’ "

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"Queensferry Crossing project ‘months behind schedule’ "

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Started 7 years ago by chdot
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Morningsider
Member

WC - interesting question (or at least, more interesting than what I'm meant to be doing). The Motorways Traffic (Scotland) Regulations 1995 don't mention "learners". It states that the holder of a provisional licence cannot drive on a motorway. While you have passed a test to drive a car, your motorbike entitlements are "provisional", as you have not passed the required motorcycle tests. I think anyway - as always, happy to be corrected.

I had no idea motorcyclist licensing was so complicated: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/369984/routes-to-your-motorcycle-licence.pdf

Posted 7 years ago #
Blueth
Member

Morningsider- you are not alone in not realising that, if what you said up thread about learners on up to 125 is the extent of it then Officialdom has forgotten about learners on machines over 125 and the requirement for them to be followed by a qualified motorcyclist. They can't both use either bridge and they can't split up. Are you aware of any measures to cope with this?

Posted 7 years ago #
Morningsider
Member

Blueth - no. The Scottish Government consultation on the Traffic Regulation Order for the new bridge, which closed in late June, stated:

"Whilst the Policy Memorandum for the Forth Crossing Bill explained that traffic permitted to use the Forth Road Bridge would include motorcycles of engine capacity less than 50cc, representations were made by motorcycle organisations in 2015 that this would prevent motorcycles with engine capacity of 125cc driven by learner riders from crossing the Firth of Forth. Following consideration of this, the Scottish Ministers agreed in 2015 that the policy for the Forth Road Bridge would be changed such that motorcycles with engine capacity up to 125cc would be permitted to use the bridge. The traffic regulation order to be made later in 2016 will reflect this commitment."

Which means that no-one seems to have considered this scenario. The wording in the consultation is a bit loose - I assume that it will only be learners on bikes between 50cc and 125cc that can use the current bridge, rather than all riders.

Posted 7 years ago #
ih
Member

If I understand that complicated flowchart correctly, no one can ride a bike greater than 125cc with an L plate. To progress to greater capacity, you have to pass the practical test, but you don't get to practice on one as a learner. So anyone with an L plate goes over the old bridge.

Posted 7 years ago #
jonty
Member

I don't see why motorbikes shouldn't be allowed on the old bridge - they're unlikely to get in the way and it's much safer for them than forcing them to filter through the standing rush-hour traffic like they do now.

Posted 7 years ago #
Blueth
Member

I think that chart must be deficient. The schools seem to equip 500s with L plates. Though I long ago lost track of the regular changes to the rules which seem to be made ever more complex for the sake of complexity.

If only car drivers had so many hurdles to surmount it might concentrate their minds a bit more.

Posted 7 years ago #
minus six
Member

Frankly i don't anticipate any traffic being prevented from accessing the "old" bridge.

All it takes is to relax the restrictions for "local" access, and bob's yer uncle, its open season for both bridges.

The highway infrastructure will just make it "easier" for A90 motorway traffic to use the new crossing instead of the old.

There's not going to be any improvement for cycle traffic, anyway.

Its still going to be the same inadequate shared pavement between Ferrytoll and the bridge, and the same jostling with Amey contractor vans on the bridge "cycleway" itself.

I wonder how the new bridge will affect air current flow when the windy season starts. We already have it whipping up round FRB towers, might this added structure make it more/less challenging.

Posted 7 years ago #
wingpig
Member

The equivalent complications for four-or-more-wheel-drivers presumably manifest themselves at minibus level and above. Ideally there'd be similar distinctions to motorcycle-power categories applied to cars, to stop people passing tests in teeny cars with good visibility and then moving up to whizzy roller-skates or lumbering vans without any additional assessment.

Posted 7 years ago #
Arellcat
Moderator

There's not going to be any improvement for cycle traffic, anyway.

I would tend to agree.

http://www.transport.gov.scot/forth-replacement-crossing/stage-3-design-report

http://www.transport.gov.scot/system/files/documents/tsc-basic-pages/Figure_3_7.pdf

And yet there are the "improve where feasible" worthy words in the Jacobs Arup report of Nov 2009.

http://www.transport.gov.scot/system/files/documents/tsc-basic-pages/Figure_3_16.pdf

Posted 7 years ago #
crowriver
Member

Well they can't go providing decent facilities for cyclists, now can they? We might start getting ideas above our station, like thinking we deserve dedicated infrastructure, and are even the equal of motorists. The very idea! No, far preferable that we are kept where we belong, at the bottom of the pile. What better way to demonstrate our true position in society than to spend £2 billion on a bridge with no cycling facilities whatsoever? Then spend the barest minimum on routing existing, sub-standard facilities shared with pedestrians the long way around the new bridge. That'll show us, eh? Job done. Trebles all round!

Posted 7 years ago #
acsimpson
Member

I know it's small mercies but the lack of thundering traffic on the old bridge should make cycling across it far more pleasant. At least on days when the wind is low enough that it doesn't mask the thundering traffic.

There would have been more chance of getting the approaches approved if Scottish Transport hadn't trunked the old bridge. With the approaches under Fife and Edinburgh Council's control and both currently being quite cycling friendly I'm sure it would have happened sooner or later.

Posted 7 years ago #
crowriver
Member

Perhaps the old bridge will be 'de-trunked' once the new motorway is in place? In which case will FETA be exhumed and jolted back to life by CEC/Fife council?

Posted 7 years ago #
HankChief
Member

I asked the Queensferry crossing twitter account if we'll get a shot of the bridge and approach roads before cars come along.

Their response was encouraging

"That is certainly in our thinking at present - full and final details haven't been released as yet "

Posted 7 years ago #
chdot
Admin

Nice!

Posted 7 years ago #
acsimpson
Member

Excellent. I've been hoping that someone would have thought of this as I didn't have any idea who to contact.

Posted 7 years ago #
HankChief
Member

It does feel quite weird to get excited about the chance to use the multi billion pound bridge for a day and then not be able to use for ever more.

Kind of like getting a fabulous Christmas present but breaking it on Boxing day.

Posted 7 years ago #
acsimpson
Member

"Life is like a box of chocolates."

Posted 7 years ago #
minus six
Member

much as "rangers" will now always be Sevco

"Queensferry Crossing" will always be

The Motorway Bridge

Posted 7 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"

FRESH fears have been raised over whether the new Queensferry Crossing will be finished on time after it emerged that bad weather had halted work for more than five weeks during the summer.

The £1.3 billion bridge across the Forth is already late and the new revelations have prompted doubts about the revised target date for it to be completed by May next year.

"

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/fresh-fears-over-queensferry-crossing-completion-date-1-4253340

Posted 7 years ago #
fimm
Member

They filled another of the gaps recently - I saw a photo.

Posted 7 years ago #
chdot
Admin

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Posted 7 years ago #
chdot
Admin

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/queensferry-crossing-enters-guinness-book-of-records-1-4254782

Posted 7 years ago #
chdot
Admin

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/queensferry-crossing-52-metres-from-completion-1-4287946

Posted 7 years ago #
minus six
Member

Its incredible when you realise that what we are going to end up with here between the bridge(s) and ferrytoll is TWO parallel motorways, and just the same old wee unmaintained and inadequate shared use footpath...

Posted 7 years ago #
neddie
Member

The bridge deck of the FRC looks like a fully enclosed box-section. They could easily put a cycle track inside it

Posted 7 years ago #
Morningsider
Member

edd1e_h - there is a sort of mini-monorail inside the FRC box girder for maintenance staff to use. The pods can hold two people and some gear. Also, the central reservation is 9m wide - effectively dead space between the cables. It can't be used as a cycle path though - as the towers are "in the way".

Posted 7 years ago #
crowriver
Member

"Its incredible when you realise that what we are going to end up with here between the bridge(s) and ferrytoll is TWO parallel motorways, and just the same old wee unmaintained and inadequate shared use footpath..."

Welcome to Scotland The Bold!

Posted 7 years ago #
chdot
Admin

The future?!

http://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/blog/ill-fated-cycle-bus

Posted 7 years ago #
Ed1
Member

It does seem strange opening a new bridge in 2017 that does not have pedestrian or cycle provision, also a lack of vision, what happens when the old bridge is put out of service. I would be surpised if the duplication of maintained is maintained indefinitely. Only a matter of time before a big bill comes in for forth bridge and some “bright spark” does some ropey consultation showing it could be closed

Posted 7 years ago #
minus six
Member

@Ed1

Back in the day when Holyrood debated the Forth Road Bridge Bill, stage 2 timetabling session i think it was, one of the MSPs idiotically demanded that there should now also be a timetable for decomissioning the old bridge.

despite it already being on public record that

"Ministers took the decision to retain the existing Forth Road Bridge for public transport and this has allowed the development of an operationally flexible, narrower, replacement crossing of high quality at a lower cost."

http://www.scotsman.com/news/163-112m-to-make-forth-road-bridge-world-s-most-expensive-bus-lane-1-1229021

Posted 7 years ago #