CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
geordiefatbloke - the early release lights allow cyclists to turn right, without having to mix with motorised traffic. Possibly best to think of it as a cyclist only phase of the lights.
edd1e_h - I reckon the consultants are talking rubbish. Also, with segregated cycle lanes and a cycle only phase/early release, traffic wouldn't be an issue for cyclists or pedestrians.
Would anyone design a road like this? Clearly not. There is space to do this right - why not actually do it.
Hmm. It's not awful, but it's not great either. We've got to get away from this 'just swing over the road to use this crossing' nonsense and make stuff single-sided, especially when there's loads of space.
Also, why the little swing round the corner thing on the Cumin/Tantallon crossing? Just take bikes straight across in line with the junction and make it more awkward for cars, not for bikes.
I think it was quite telling that at the consultation, the drawings had big bold text, clearly stating the no. of parking spaces lost & the no. gained - it's almost as if they think that's all people care about.
"it's almost as if they think that's all people care about"
Sadly they have reason to think that.
The question is - 'how much did CEC impress on the consultants that inconveniencing cars (moving or parked) as little as possible has to be a/the key consideration'?
@morningsider Ta!
edd1e_h - that really stood out. It is really odd as there are no shops or services on these roads and every house has an ample driveway. Even with segregated lanes, there would still be space for parking.
@chdot - "The question is - 'how much did CEC impress on the consultants that inconveniencing cars (moving or parked) as little as possible has to be a/the key consideration'?"
Clearly didn't happen.
Its because the council clearly don't care. Otherwise they wouldn't have allowed this crazy proposal as the first draft.
Its lip service so they can hit a notional self determined active travel target without inconveniencing the motorised transport lobby -
"we spent the money on QBiC and all you complain about is the deliveries to the Chinese Supermarket" "we spent the money on a Lauder Road cycle lane, now nobody uses it" "we spent the money on Roseburn and you cyclists still use the main road"
Even some decent infra (Meadows to Innocent) is only decent because the structure of these quietish roads allows it - its still far from stellar.
Even some decent infra (Meadows to Innocent) is only decent because the structure of these quietish roads allows it
and because of a huge amount of campaigning from CCE / Spokes.
Let us not forget how rubbish the original plans were.
the drawings had big bold text, clearly stating the no. of parking spaces lost & the no. gained
I had to go back and check the title of this thread - I could have sworn the statement also applicable to MacDonald Road.
Think both are by the same set of consultants who have probably been given £x and have simply drawn a few straight lines on a map.
I've filled it in now. Lovers Loan by foot and Lauder Road by bike are our main routes into town. I can't see myself ever using the Lauder Road/Grange Road crossing northbound, and even accessing it by foot from the west side of the junction will not be easy unless you cross at the junction itself (the width of Lauder Road makes it difficult to cross, esp with baby buggy).
Consultation now closes on the 14th. Still a bit of time, but why not do it now, so you don't forget?
https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/design-cycle-walk-grange-road/
Late to it, but completed comments largely using the good points raised above...Closes today.
Having given it some detailed thought, I've had to strongly oppose the Lauder Road "improvements".
The new cycle tracks give way to everybody, expect exiting cyclists to have 270 degree vision (in order to give way to everybody) and move cyclists closer to the sightline blocking walls and parked SUVs/vans.
I've suggested that rather than attempt to give priority to pedestrians without changing the vehicular priority, the simpler approach may be to change the vehicular priority - make Grange Road give way to Lauder Road.
Pedestrians can then more easily cross Grange Road as a side street, and with flow cycle lanes could be provided on each side across the junction. These could be protected by a kerb for 10m before and after Grange Road, thus forcing drivers turning into the new side street to slow and cross the cycle lane more at right angles (to place straight on cyclists in front of them, rather than to the side).
No doubt this will be rejected as impacting traffic flow too much, although two zebra crossings close to each other will do a reasonable job of that alone...
Robert
Ok I completed this but with a heavy heart and with a sense that I was moaning. The planned crossings in my view have vehicular priority stamped all over them, and the need for cyclists and pedestrians to cross over the side roads to reach the Grange Road crossings just offends me. Surely there is a design which allows pedestrians and bikes to cross in a more natural way. I believe Lauder Road and Tantallon Place are quiet enough not to need specific cycling tracks, but ways to cross Grange Road without having to be diverted into why is essentially a pedestrian facility are desperately needed.
https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/design-cycle-walk-grange-road/consult_view
Lover’s Loan - Design drawings of the changes shall be made available (see note below)
o A raised table at the zebra crossing will be included in the design.
o To improve access to the whole of Lover’s Loan we shall:
o alter the chicanes so that they are be accessible by double pushchairs and
wheelchairs.
o add dropped kerbs at all entrances to the path.
o remove parking spaces which overlap the path entrances.
o add informal raised table for crossings on every road which bisects the path.
o To improve sightlines around the crossing and we shall consider altering the bus stops either side of the Lauder Road crossing.
Lauder Road - Design drawings of the changes shall be made available (see note below)
o A raised table at the crossing will be included in the design.
o The informal pedestrian crossing point of Lauder Road shall be moved to desire line of
the footway.
o To re-enforce the pedestrian priority at Lauder Road, the cycleway shall be stopped at the edge of the building line/pavement of Grange Road. At this point, give-way markings
shall be added at to the cycleway so that pedestrians have priority and to ensure cyclists slow down and check traffic before entering the crossing.
o To make it safer for cyclists entering the crossing from Lauder Road, we shall extend the cycleway and pavement to 20m from the junction. This will make the entry point safer as it is further from the junction, which is a more dynamic environment. We shall also include a refuge island for cyclists and pedestrians in the centre of Lauder Road (to the south of the proposed crossing). This will help cyclists and pedestrians to get across Lauder Road to the crossing. To achieve this, we will have to move the bus stop on Lauder Road slightly to the south and remove four parking bays.
o To improve sightlines around the crossing and we shall consider altering the bus stops either side of the Lauder Road crossing.
Tantallon Place - Design drawings of the changes shall be made available (see note
below)
o A raised table at the crossing will be included in the design.
o To increase pedestrian priority and create a more pedestrian friendly space that is particular safer for children going to school, we shall implement a continuous footway across the Tantallon Place and Cumin Place. The cycleway shall be delineated with edging stones that are flush to the pavement level and with give way markings where the cycleway meets the pavement so that pedestrians have priority.
o In order to improve the crossing alignment for pedestrians and cyclists and reduce potential for conflict the left turn out of Cumin Place and the right turn out of Tantallon Place shall be banned.
All the above changes will be shown in detailed design drawings which are currently being
developed. When completed these shall be made available for consultation. Notification of the
consultation shall be sent to all those who have expressed interest and all homeowners are
directly affected by these further proposed changes.
Does any or all of that represent and satisfy the views of anyone on here who commented?
Does any or all of that represent and satisfy the views of anyone on here who commented?
Sort of. They replied to my written comments with a copy and paste of how the plans will be altered.
It will be more interesting to see how they are changing the plans (particularly Lauder/Grange junction) once they are published.
(The report makes interesting reading, and a nice contrast from Evening News comments as the anti-cycle responses are a very small minority and quietly dismissed).
“
Cycling and walking improvements on Grange Road - Final Design
“
https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/cycling-and-walking-grange-rd-fd/consult_view/
I can't see any harm in these proposals but I can't see much point either, other than those blasted chicanes in Lovers' Loan getting zapped at long last.
The Grange is about the easiest on-road cycling going. Hardly a priority compared to the combat zones on either side of it.
Apart from the busy (especially at school times) road through the middle.
Nearest school has about highest walk/cycle levels in Edinburgh.
Kilgraston? I was thinking of that as a combat zone. Can be horrible and of course it's the Marchmont to KB corridor of my youth.
Can'see anyone wiggling down Lovers' Lane if they're steaming to a lecture.
I routinely get close/punishment passes on Lauder Road.
I know that's crazy as, even if parked on both sides, the road is wide enough to pass safely, yet I have the video to prove it.
For that reason, I'm in favour of unidirectional, parking protected cycle tracks on this Quiet Route!
Robert
@Roibeard
Ah well, glad to hear this scheme suits you. I think I've said before but I go Hatton, Tantallon, Cumin, Dick, Findhorn, Relugas and never encounter any bams at all.
Looks like improvements for walking on Lovers Loan. Potentially my daughter might cycle there, not sure how easy passing the 'improved barriers' will be (I don't expect to use that route with the Follow-me).
I still don't like the offset cycle crossing of Grange Road at Lauder Road, although the presence of the crossing will move parked vehicles further from the junction and improve visibility when riding north on the carriageway.
Lovers' Loan is really too narrow and hemmed-in to be a cycle route. It could be widened by compulsory purchase of slices of the Grange's back gardens but the universe would be subject to heat death before the court cases were finished.
Progress! Construction is starting on 14/06.
A mere 4 years, 8 months and 14 days after consultation (for what's essentially a zebra crossing and a toucan). Barnstorming.
The zebra crossing at Lover's Loan is complete. No major progress on the crossing at Lauder Road yet, seems there's some sort of Scottish Power issue.
Very modern Zebra indeed
Like in the old days when people went on trips to use Zebra Crossings, well worth a look.
Abbey Road Zebra Crossing famously predicted death of The Beatles?
TRO drawings for the Tantallon Place crossing (last page): https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/29901/existing-and-proposed-plans
The only particular change is that just north and south of the crossing is one way southbound.
That’s pretty good. It creates a pseudo modal filter at Tantalon Pl
You must log in to post.
Cycling in Edinburgh Flickr group
Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin
posts