CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Andrew Burns unfairly treated on youtube

(41 posts)

No tags yet.


12

  1. algo
    Member

    Not sure if anyone has seen this - it's utterly ridiculous from an Edinburgh based anti-cyclist vlogger. He has clearly gone to some trouble to wait and ambush Andrew Burns and say he is a hypocrite for not entering the ASL via the cycle lane at the end of Tarvit Street.. even though he is turning right. I cannot believe people want to spend their time recording this. I had a very unfortunate facebook exchange with someone who explicitly thought all the problems on the road were due to cyclists... I despair

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Plugin

    Posted 8 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    Thanks for summary, means I don't have to watch!

    Posted 8 years ago #

  3. Frenchy
    Member

    I'm struggling to find anything backing up his assertion that you MUST enter the box via the bike lane.

    Of course, he's an idiot even if he's technically correct on the law here.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  4. chdot
    Admin

    "Of course, he's an idiot even if he's technically correct on the law here."

    Yes, but the law is stupid too (unless it's been amended), bikes not allowed to cross white line into an ASL box.

    Some have even been painted without a gap!

    Posted 8 years ago #

  5. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Worth giving the video a thumbs down on Youtube, if you happen to be signed in to that particular platform.

    Also I notice the account calls itself "Transport for Edinburgh". I'll point that out to the real TfE that there's an account taking their name in vain.

    No I won't, because TfE don't appear to have any contact details. Not even old fashioned email.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  6. redmist
    Member

    That's 3 mins of my life I'll never get back ;-) I was expecting something to happen - a bald cyclist pulls up at a red light, waits for it to change then moves off. The only thing I could see wrong was the blue car stopping right in the ASL !

    Posted 8 years ago #

  7. Stickman
    Member

    So we've reached the stage where anti-cyclist weirdos are stalking local councillors? Looks like this guy has gone there specifically to film.

    If I were Andrew I'd be reporting this to the police, especially given recent events.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  8. algo
    Member

    This account is dedicated to people cycling badly. I'm afraid I've had a look at some of the videos. There is even a complete non-sequetur reference to why presumed liability is bad. This particular video is from "a contributor" - so it could be anyone.

    Thanks @stickman - I've sent an e-mail to Andrew Burns making him aware at least... he may well already know.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  9. chdot
    Admin

    "No I won't, because TfE don't appear to have any contact details. Not even old fashioned email."

    Just send a Twitter message to Lesley, she seems to be co-running things!

    http://transportforedinburgh.com/meet-the-management-team

    (If you click the arrows by her photo you'll see some more usual suspects!)

    Posted 8 years ago #

  10. davidsonsdave
    Member

    Most of us just follow the highway code:

    "Rule 178

    Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red..."

    I particularly like how the cars in his videos break the law but they are not even mentioned. Instead they focus on a little-known and daft quirk in the law which means Andrew has entered the box in the "wrong" way.

    I turn right at this junction every day and will not be using the feeder to enter the ASL.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  11. dougal
    Member

    The feeder is what turns ASLs from "well meaning" into "designed to get people killed".

    Posted 8 years ago #

  12. wishicouldgofaster
    Member

    Especially when cars drive into the ASL box

    Posted 8 years ago #

  13. ih
    Member

    The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 says;

    17.25 The definition of an advanced stop line has been changed to allow cyclists to cross the first stop line at any point along its length. A new variant is also prescribed in diagram 1001.2B that omits the lead-in lane or gate completely. Advanced stop lines can also be provided at signalised stand-alone crossings.

    So kudos to Andrew Burns for keeping up with the trivia of road traffic regulations.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  14. chdot
    Admin

    @ih thanks!

    Sense at last!

    "Advanced stop lines can also be provided at signalised stand-alone crossings."

    Presume that means pedestrian crossings(?)

    Posted 8 years ago #

  15. algo
    Member

    @ih :-) Thanks for keeping us all up to date!

    Posted 8 years ago #

  16. Stickman
    Member

    I posted ih's comment on YouTube below the video. Apparently these were filmed in 2014 so the regs hadn't changed.

    Isn't there something very creepy about stalking someone's usual route to work, filming them and holding on to the videos for two years before publishing them?

    Some seriously unhinged people out there.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  17. ih
    Member

    @Stickman There was actually an exemption for ASLs before the regs update!

    Agree, filming this is very pervy, and the guy really needs to get a life - a bit like me, so I'm out of this thread.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  18. Ed1
    Member

    Has Andrew burns position become untenable after this cycle-gate charging in to An ASL -)

    Posted 8 years ago #

  19. algo
    Member

    @ih - in common sense world it really doesn't matter, but for the sake of interest do you know when that exemption came into place and is there a reference to it somewhere?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  20. Klaxon
    Member

    Algo: reference was made in the first line

    2016 edition of TSRGD

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/traffic-signs-regulations-and-general-directions-2016-an-overview

    Bible of all the signs, signals and markings allowed to be used on UK roads

    Posted 8 years ago #

  21. algo
    Member

    @Klaxon - thanks yes I read that - I was referring to the predating exemption to which ih referred in the subsequent post...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    Maybe it's been ok since 2002!

    "

    Regulation 43 (2) of the 'Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002' states: -
    Where the road markings (in reference to advanced stop lines) has been placed in conjunction with light signals, the "stop line" in relation to those light signals means -

    (a) the first stop line, in the case of a vehicle (other than a pedal cycle proceeding in the cycle lane) which has not proceeded beyond that line; or

    (b) the second stop line, in the case of a vehicle which has proceeded beyond the first stop line or of a pedal cycle proceeding in the cycle lane.

    What this means is that is an offence for a motor vehicle not to stop at the first stop line if the lights have changed to red. If the light changes to red whilst the vehicle is between the two lines, then the vehicle must stop before the second line. Bicycles are exempt from stopping at first line.

    "

    http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/streetsahead/info/10/cycling_campaigns/74/drive_safe_cycle_safe_advanced_stop_lines

    Posted 8 years ago #

  23. chdot
    Admin

    Also

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regulation/43/made

    Posted 8 years ago #

  24. Stickman
    Member

    The cops finally got Capone on tax evasion; maybe Andrew Burns will be brought down by the interpretation of Regulation 43 (2) of the 'Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  25. gibbo
    Member

    "I'm struggling to find anything backing up his assertion that you MUST enter the box via the bike lane."

    And what about the majority of ASLs that don't have a bike lane leading to them?

    How did cyclists legally stop in one of those? Were those merely decorative until the law was changed?

    I remember, years ago, someone on here claiming that all ASLs were meant to, by law, have feeder lanes into them. (e.g. like the one on Holyrood Park Rd.)

    Maybe there could have been a time when, because of the lack of cycle lanes, cyclists had to break the law to use most ASLs? Then, because it was stupid, the law was changed?

    I don't know. But to post a video where two cars are clearly breaking the law - a very well-known law... and to ignore that in order to jab your finger about a cyclist breaking, at most, a now-repealed law...

    Just laughable.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  26. chdot
    Admin

    "And what about the majority of ASLs that don't have a bike lane leading to them?"

    It's a good point - in that there really ought to be proper lead-in lanes to enable filtering.

    The discussion about 'getting into the box' (apart from the nonsense about - previously - bikes not being allowed to cross a white line into an area supposedly reserved for them) was that some boxes had a white line all the way to the kerb without even the smallest gap.

    There were even some lead-in lanes that ended at the white line!

    Now the regulations have caught up with 'sense'.

    Bikes can cross the first line and cars can't (if the lights are red).

    Looking forward to the police doing an awareness campaign - followed by fines...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  27. Arellcat
    Moderator

    some boxes had a white line all the way to the kerb without even the smallest gap.

    Exhibit A

    Exhibit B     - though I suppose you could have 'gone around' on the red lines!

    Posted 8 years ago #

  28. gibbo
    Member

    I was going to post one I was waiting in this morning, but a check on google maps showed it had about 1m of narrow bike lane on the left. (That I didn't even see because I was to the right in order to turn right.)

    Posted 8 years ago #

  29. wishicouldgofaster
    Member

    Not long until a lot of the ASLs disappear due to a complete lack of maintainence.

    If motorists can't see them clearly they will have a good excuse for driving into them.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  30. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    I'd posted on this about the stalking angle, to which he responded, asking more questions. I then replied, at length, but in a measured way. That reply has been deleted. So you can tell the type of person being dealt with.

    Ah well, the world keeps turning.

    Posted 8 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

12

Reply »

You must log in to post.


Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin