I still don't think it was a race. Say it was one of those sportives with a guest appearance by Chris Hoy or Graeme Obree. If you finished ahead of them would you claim to have beaten them in a race?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Events, rides etc.
Tour o' the Borders 2016
(49 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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It's all about perception. I remember that I once "won" an audax in a solo break. But that was because no one else was racing against me (plus a bit of luck with ferries). They were enjoying the scenery (Mull) and cake. I was the only one to beat the rain though by some margin - that's a real victory!
Posted 8 years ago # -
"If you finished ahead of them would you claim to have beaten them in a race?"
YES!!
Posted 8 years ago # -
The other thing about sportives is that the riders generally start in waves, so unless you happen to have a mental note of the other 2000 or so riders' start times, you don't even know who you're 'beating' while you're on the road (unless you started at the back and you find yourself at the front!). So really the competitive riders are just trying to get the best possible time for later bragging rights against their mates. Yes, it is (or can be) very competitive, and is in a sense a 'retrospective race', but it's not a race in 'real time'.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"If you finished ahead of them would you claim to have beaten them in a race?"
Why not? If you're considering yourself as having finished ahead of every other rider and therefore beating them, why not Obree and Hoy as well? (as it happens, I suspect many people on here (not me, but many) would actually beat Hoy - he's a sprinter, not built for endurance (he told me so once dontcha know, before he became the most successful Olympian, when I interviewed him).
" So really the competitive riders are just trying to get the best possible time for later bragging rights against their mates."
So kinda like a mass start time trial? Is a time trial a race?
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Is a time trial a race?"
Shhh
Posted 8 years ago # -
Posted 8 years ago #
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With ToB my second go was to try and improve my first 'best time'. That was the 2013 one that Hankchief and adamthekiwi mentioned.
(John Anderson at the sector next door to LB's old shop was the organiser and was keen to get a testing route. The rules for which sort of bikes could enter were discussed and they kindly agreed to 'not ban' recumbents. Some sportives do use UCI rules.)
I had a place of around 300th in 2013 on short route. Was survival on a bike though. Next time I improved my time to get to 38th I think. I still slowed up to chat with big Ged and sample the food as John A was keen that the event should connect to local businesses who had been hostile to having roads closed. I then wondered if I could go non-stop and got 7th placing last year on the short route. I was 'encouraged' to do this by the increasingly more exotic bikes that people were using.
Many people just want a PB and in doing so they sometimes go faster than other people. In Dave's case that just happened to be everyone else ;-)
Posted 8 years ago # -
If Hoy was clearly sprinting for the finish and I managed to get in front, you can be absolutely sure I would claim to have beaten him. With "claim" extending to a serious of commemorative prints and a small bronze statue.
If Hoy was instead sat up and chatting in midfield whilst I coughed up a lung at the front, then not so much.
Without getting quantum on this, is it not possible for a sportive to both be a race (for those who are clearly racing) and not a race (for those who aren't)?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Also worth mentioning that recumbent =/= auto-win. Particularly the High Baron, which treats brake lever movement as a suggestion to be considered rather than an actual command :)
Posted 8 years ago # -
But the problem is then that you don't know how much was down to your physical efforts (and training) and how much was due to the undoubted advantages of a recumbent. To test that you would need an event restricted to recumbents. And that is going down the same road the UCI went down - regulating what is and what isn't a race bike and what is and what isn't a race. I'd just be happy you bested a load of roadies who were probably trying very hard to get the fastest time and who had decided they were engaged in a proper race. Without the UCI regulated advantage they usually enjoy they will have received a sharp lesson in how compromised their machines are.
Posted 8 years ago # -
So do the lead group all just ignore the feed stops ? Never been in the lead group(s) on a sportive... I always stop - got to get my money's worth !
Posted 8 years ago # -
Yes, I think we can safely assume those going for the best possible time will ignore all the feed stops - at least in events up to 100km or so. Maybe grab a banana or a few jelly beans on a 100 miler.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Cyclingmollie ...and how much was due to the undoubted advantages of a recumbent.
The thing is that I realised that going faster on my bike is a by product really but that's how it works (certainly with a lighter twin 700c type 'bent). If a recumbent sits in and wheelsucks a grouping of road bikes then that's bad and sort of pointless. But riders aren't totally cheating as in electric doping. They still use a lot of energy - distributed over the ride in a different way. As these are 'unkowns' to upright riders they are not really understood. (LB Bikes does get a few people coming just to see how they might work - nobrakes being one in early days of adapting).
I wonder how Dave would have done on his Planet X bike? He needs to go back and do again when he gets a minute between twin duties (other 'babies' thread)!
Posted 8 years ago # -
Note that Dave says in his post that his reason for making the breakaway was because he knew he would be slower up the climbs. I understand climbing on a recumbent is more difficult - one reason being that you can't bring your whole body weight to play like you can on an upright.
BoF didn't stop at any of the food stops - I think because he wanted a good time - he thought there would be free food at the finish and there wasn't (he ended up buying a cup-cake / muffin thing that looked totally delicious!)
Posted 8 years ago # -
For the price of a sportive I'd like a guy running along side with a feed bag for me to collect!
Posted 8 years ago # -
One of the reasons a sportive isn't really a race* is that you can wheelsuck your way around the route, taking advantage of other people just trying for their best time, then sprint past them at the end. In a real race nobody would tolerate such tactics because in a road race position is important, not time.
I was '20th' last year, but I'm not kidding myself that it was a race. Proper road racers would leave me for dust. I am just pretending. I enjoy it nevertheless*(apart from the organisers saying it isn't)
Posted 8 years ago # -
6:40 for me but I'm just pleased to have completed in one piece given I considered chickening out before the wind forecast. Highlights include coffee at the first food stop and the downhill/tailwind after Talla which lead to me staying right at the split.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"LB Bikes does get a few people coming just to see how they might work - nobrakes being one in early days of adapting"
I have adapted enough to know I will never willingly cycle another upright bike :) However I made the switch because I have chronic back pain that was becoming unbearable on an upright, and I was nearing the point where either I did something drastic or I gave up cycling entirely. The bent has more or less eliminated that problem.
My general feel is that they are much more work on uphills, a 'bit' faster on the flat, with the advantage increasing as you start to go downhill up to the point that they become insane on the steep downhills. Overall I am already much faster than I was on an upright, but that was a hybrid and I was in constant pain, so it's not really a fair comparison. The muscle usage is so different I don't think you can make any meaningful comparison until you've trained to the same level you were at on an upright.
Posted 8 years ago #
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