CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Audi cars to talk to traffic lights

(28 posts)

  1. Min
    Member

    Article on the BBC about new technology to make driving more comfortable rather than a safety aid (says the article).

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37098513

    The countdown will also tell drivers when they are not going to be able to make an approaching light before it turns red, thereby signalling that the driver should start to brake.

    I wonder how many drivers will start to brake rather than start to accelerate when they see the lights are going to change soon?

    Although at least this is about knowing when existing traffic lights will change rather than a hack to make traffic light change to green for you! Oh wait..

    Audi has pioneered the use of traffic light recognition technology and is looking to expand on its work, said Aston University's professor of industry David Bailey.
    He told the BBC: "It could bring benefits in easing journey time. For example, if you are driving through a city at a quiet time of day with little other traffic, the lights could switch to let you through.

    Pfft.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  2. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Anything to make things even more easy for the driver. Because operating a car is, like, hard and stuff.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  3. Min
    Member

    Well it does seem to be pretty much impossible from what I see every day!

    Posted 8 years ago #

  4. jonty
    Member

    There's already plenty of technology to make lights green for approaching vehicles and I'd guess it's much cheaper (and universal) than this stuff.

    Surely the pre-light braking would have to be automatic to make sense? Automatic braking at an about-to-turn-amber light is actually quite a nice idea and could save passengers from hard stops when the driver misjudges their speed and pedestrians from gambling drivers. Another step to full automation. Better light pre-emption is probably just an attempt to make safety features into a general enhancement.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  5. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "...if you are driving through a city at a quiet time of day with little other traffic, the lights could switch to let you through."

    I do think there's a case to be made for more intelligent traffic light systems - primarily so that, in residential areas especially, you don't have cars just sitting idling, chuntering out their fumes, waiting to go (as well as the slight volume increase of cars pulling away and trying to get up to speed ASAP).

    Of course that clashes with putting in place systems which actually make driving less convenient, and so longer red spells, giving priority to pedestrians, and green wave sequences for cyclists, would actually increase the time spent by cars waiting.

    I think I'd rather go for the latter, thinking about it, as the stick approach seems to have worked in the likes of Copenhagen.

    An American friend of mine pointed out that their traffic light sensors (in Seattle at least) are set-up to recognise the flashing lights of emergency service vehicles, and turn to green for them, which rules out the possibility of people from the side streets having green and not paying attention to the sirens etc. Seemed eminently sensible. Sometimes America gets it right (like it being illegal to pass a stopped schoolbus - YouTube videos of this phenomenon are remarkable - big wide multilane streets, schoolbus stopped, and traffic in the third lane stopped waiting for the bus to get going again).

    Where was I? Oh yes, making driving 'easier', just feels as if drivers will be able to abdicate even more responsibility (viz. my satnav told me to drive into this field filled with puppies and then crash into the river, how was I to know that wasn't the correct route to Oxford?). Oft-heard comment, the greatest safety device you could put in any car would be a giant spike in the middle of the steering wheel - that's make people think twice.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  6. chdot
    Admin

    Don't know how much 'traffic' (rather than demand/resources) is responsible -

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/health/edinburgh-patients-facing-20-minute-ambulance-wait-1-4205254

    Posted 8 years ago #

  7. Frenchy
    Member

    "YouTube videos of this phenomenon are remarkable - big wide multilane streets, schoolbus stopped, and traffic in the third lane stopped waiting for the bus to get going again"

    On the other hand:

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Widget

    Posted 8 years ago #

  8. neddie
    Member

    Safety benefits are almost always absorbed as performance benefits.

    Seatbelts, ABS, traction control, stability programmes, high-grip tyres, safety cages, crumple zones, air bags, auto-pilots, collapsible street furniture...

    All have enabled faster-, or more aggressive-, or closer to the 'limit'-, or more inattentive driving.

    Some safety benefits that are unlikely to be absorbed as performance benefits (and not surprisingly haven't been fitted to many cars):

    - Black box data recorders;
    - GPS controlled speed limiters;
    - Reduced power output (50 horses should be enough for anyone);
    - Driver monitoring (although sleepy drivers could still rely on this to wake them up i.e a performance benefit).

    Posted 8 years ago #

  9. fimm
    Member

    A different way to change the "sit at a red light with no other traffic visible in the middle of the night" 'problem' would be to do what they do in Austria (or was it Germany where I noticed this? Anyway).

    You'd have to change the law and the way the traffic lights work.

    At quiet times, the lights in all directions flash amber. This means you can go if it is safe - effectively the junction has become a Give Way. This means you don't have to sit pointlessly at a red light, and it also means that you have to slow down, look, and take care at each junction because you can't assume you can just go.

    I assume there's some thought goes into this so that where for example you can't see oncoming traffic the lights work in the usual way at all times.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  10. fimm
    Member

    Is it just me, or at embedded videos not working this morning?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  11. Min
    Member

    No, they don't seem to work for me either.

    At quiet times, the lights in all directions flash amber. This means you can go if it is safe

    Would that not mean in practice (at least in the UK) "go if there is only a cyclist in the way"?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  12. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "Would that not mean in practice (at least in the UK) "go if there is only a cyclist in the way"?"

    There'd certainly be an adjustment period. I'm with you, I'm not sure that in the current climate a change like this (they do it in France as well, and it really does make sense) would necessarily work in the UK. Though put in place the enforcement structure around bad driving, and.... Oh, wait, what am I saying?

    "Black box data recorders"

    This this this. The number of incidents where the tale told by the driver is the only one you get because the victim is now dead - take doubt out of the equation (at least in terms of speed and acceleration/deceleration and driving direction etc). The tech is cheap and easy, the various computer systems on modern cars already hold all of this info.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  13. crowriver
    Member

    These are Audi drivers we are talking about. Audi drivers.

    They are not going to start braking, they will gun the engine hoping to 'slip' through the light just as it changes to red. Oh, poor pedestrian/cyclist, they didn't see them...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  14. urchaidh
    Member

    They are not going to start braking, they will gun the engine hoping to 'slip' through the light just as sometime after it changes to red

    Posted 8 years ago #

  15. Nelly
    Member

    "These are Audi drivers we are talking about. Audi drivers"

    I drive an audi - on the (rare) occasions that I drive.

    Its sometimes too easy to fall into the same trap as the "all cyclists RLJ whenever they are not on the pavement" types........

    Posted 8 years ago #

  16. crowriver
    Member

    Can't be denied the drivers of certain German executive saloons have an image problem, vis:

    Posted 8 years ago #

  17. PS
    Member

    Over the past 12 years I have been a BMW driver, an Audi driver and a Land Rover driver. Sometimes I daren't come on here for fear of being judged. ;-)

    I've never driven a taxi though. Or a City Link coach.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  18. Disco Dave
    Member

    I also happen to own an Audi - it does make me chuckle to be pigeon-holed unfairly by wider society thanks to the cycle commute each day, only to come on here to get the same treatment the other way.... :)

    (I don't dare mention that the Audi is ONE of my cars)

    Posted 8 years ago #

  19. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "Can't be denied the drivers of certain German executive saloons cyclists have an image problem"

    Doesn't mean either are correct. Though I did get a very close, very fast Audi overtake at lunchtime just so he could tailgate a white van (which had passed me perfectly, damn you stereotypes) ahead.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  20. fimm
    Member

    I actually think that Audi drivers are either excellent or appear to think they've bought a BMW... ;-)

    I once drove a white BMW saloon as a hire car. I'm a rather cautious driver. I think I confused people...

    (One of our friends got a BMW and got fed up with "Did you get indicators fitted?" type jokes...)

    Posted 8 years ago #

  21. nobrakes
    Member

    @WC "the greatest safety device you could put in any car would be a giant spike in the middle of the steering wheel - that's make people think twice"

    That's a very good idea, but I think the greatest safety device you could put in a car is automated driving technology. I can't wait to give up driving. The days when I enjoyed it are long gone. Instead it's endless clutching / braking / rubbing sore neck and back.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  22. jonty
    Member

    Without wanting to justify one or the other, it's worth pointing out that the difference between Audi driver stereotypes and cyclist stereotypes is that only one meaningfully affects the target group's likelihood of being killed, injured or having infrastructure built for them.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  23. dougal
    Member

    "just so he could tailgate a white van"

    Ah, now we get to the proper meaty stereotypes! White Van Man, he even has his own wikipedia page.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  24. cb
    Member

    Regarding spikes, steering wheel knobs used to be common in days of yore.

    Seem to be known as a Brodie Knob but perhaps that's an American thing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodie_knob

    "
    The device is often called a "suicide knob" because it is useless and even interferes in controlling the wheel during an emergency.[3] Brodie knobs are also known as "necker knobs", because they allow steering with one hand while necking with the passenger. It is also called a "knuckle buster" because of the disadvantage posed by the knob when letting go of the steering wheel after going around a corner, the wheel spins rapidly and the knob can hit the user's knuckle, forearm, or elbow. If the driver is wearing a long sleeve shirt, the protruding accessory on the rim of the steering wheel can also become caught in the sleeve's open cut by the button. Other names include "granny knob" and "wheel spinner."
    "

    No reference to head-butting the thing in a crash.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  25. Ed1
    Member

    Used to have one on my old land rover when a teenager, They are can be useful off road 4x4 race timed event things as can spin the wheel quicker with one hand if using other hand on brake or gear, also with old cars a lot of lock to lock so quicker if doing an off road (not tarmac) course with switch backs although illegal on road

    Posted 8 years ago #

  26. slowcoach
    Member

    re black box recorders, a RAC press release yesterday said "almost two thirds (65%) of all businesses surveyed now use telematics devices in their vehicles (including black box and smartphone apps) compared to 38% in 2015."

    Posted 8 years ago #

  27. robyvecchio
    Member

    About black box recorders I had a pleasant experience last week on site. One of the contractors I was surveying with had one installed on its van and it was great! respecting all speed limits, slow accelerations, careful braking... the whole package.
    I'm not sure how it works, besides having a GPS receiver and downloading stats from the vehicle computer, but at the end of the month it gives a performance score based on speed limit and general handling of the vehicle. He told me they have to hit a certain performance target, something like 95% or they get in trouble. Apparently they also have an unofficial "competition" between them for who get the better score at the end of the month.
    He told me also that this affected his private driving too, being calmer and not rushing while out and about.
    I can't wait for them becoming standard on all vehicles.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  28. neddie
    Member

    I can't wait for them becoming standard on all vehicles.

    Should be a legal requirement IMHO, along with non-bald tyres, working brakes, etc.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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