@ih - see tweet response if you want to go back directly.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Events, rides etc.
Monday 29th - Ride the Route
(173 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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Thanks HC. Luckily round corner from me so I'll nip round. I read your tweets but I'm not on twitter myself so I'll go and see if there's a medium size. Thanks.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@stickman
I seem to remember that the owner of the Roseburn Cafe told daisydaisy that he was interested in seeing the material on the business benefits of bike lanes. Is there a concise article that could be printed off that we could give him on Monday when we all go in for bacon rolls?
I printed out this collection of 12 studies on bike lanes Complete Business Case For Bike Lanes and took it to the owner of the Roseburn Cafe. He asked where these studies were done, and I said - mostly America, but various countries, and he refused to take it unless it was from Britain (but I can't help thinking there would have been something wrong with that too). The only study from the UK in that selection is about how much shop owners overestimate business from drivers. I couldn't face telling him directly he was probably wrong.
He also told me about a cyclist who's lived near by for 10 years and never bought anything from his cafe. So there you go.Posted 8 years ago # -
A lot of his customers do come by car/van, and probably not so many by bike, but that doesn't tell you about what custom could be like if Roseburn Terrace were an attractive place for anyone who wasn't driving.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@daisydaisy maybe cyclists are less likely to shop in greasy spoon cafes than your "average" shopper. Especially ones that have big posters in the window advertising their opposition to the cyclists' presence.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Quick recap on tomorrow.
I appreciate it is an early start and/or a bank holiday and many will be need to juggle school dropoffs, however, it is vital that we show the support for the cycle scheme and especially #OptionA.
We'll gather on the West side of Charlotte Square from 7.45am with us riding out at 8.00am.
There will be pennants & poles to hand out if you want to decorate your bike or you can do you own.
Algo will be at the front and biketrain bringing up the rear. It should be obvious who they are.
There is no rush, it's only 1.5miles so it won't take that long even if some of the junctions take a while to get through.
Please do tweet & Facebook (& any other social media) using #OptionA during the morning - you can start before you get to Charlotte Square if you would like.
When we get to Roseburn, those heading off please turn left after the shops (Roseburn Gardens) and left again (Roseburn Place).
Those with a little more time, please turn right after the shops (Murrayfield Avenue) and right again (Murrayfield Place). There is plenty of space on the old bridge.
We will not be having speeches - you all know why we are doing this - but please do visit the shops while you are in Roseburn and be civil.
The advice from the police is to avoid blocking the roadway when forming and unforming (and obviously adhere to the highway code in between times). Our start and end points are quiet roads so we should be fine.
Think that's it - any questions please shout.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Meanwhile Edinburgh residents and traders who are against the cycling changes will undertake an ‘Arms Folded’ campaign as a show of counterdemonstration. They will be outside Eat’n’Joy on Roseburn Terrace at about 8.20. They say that they will explain to cyclists why the scheme will not work. The demonstrators have petitioned the council to stop the cycling scheme.
http://www.theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2016/08/five-things-you-need-to-know-today-1351/
Posted 8 years ago # -
No linkee in the pro side part of the article...
Good luck for the ride. Sorry I can't make it.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"They say that they will explain to cyclists why the scheme will not work"
Not aware that's ever been an issue - more that they think it wouldn't be in the traders' best interest', which may or may not be true.
"No linkee in the pro side part of the article..."
There will be a whole article after the ride.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"They say that they will explain to cyclists why the scheme will not work" whilst refusing to listen as cyclists explain to them why the scheme will work.
I hope that the ride goes well. I might have actually tried to get up early to join but I'm away until this afternoon.
Posted 8 years ago # -
There appears to have been a decent turnout (from Twitter) - my "contribution" has been to retweet everything that looked relevant...
Posted 8 years ago # -
I cycled around Charlotte Square at about 7.50ish as I start work at 8. There seemed to be an amazing turn out. Well done all.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Thought I had a meeting at 9, so thought I only had time to emerge from the WoL at Roseburn Cliff and glance round at the assembled before heading east. Turned out to not have a meeting, but I'll ride and tweet and email my two relevant councillors at lunchtime.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Superb turnout
Untitled by Anthony Robson, on FlickrI was only able to hang around briefly - perhaps ironically the wheels of financial services don't stop for bank holidays, so I was straight to the office.
The standard of debate was as expected when one chap (credit to him) from the counter demo came over to speak.
Roseburn Bod: No cyclists I speak to have said they'll use the cyclepath.
Cyclist 1: I will
Cyclist 2: I will
Cyclist 3: I will
Cyclist 4: I will
RB: Well none of the cyclists I've talked to have said they would.
Cyclists: Well you've got four people here saying they would.
RB: I don't believe that.
A short while later it became shouting by someone about him wanting to kill cyclists or some such, so figured it was time for me to go (did actually make it to my desk for 9am, go me, bikewins)
I'll be uncharitable with one observation after riding past the counter demo. And this observation seems to mirror a lot of the IndyRef and Brexit battle lines... The Cycling group was a complete and total mix. You couldn't home in on one demographic (save 'white' I guess); the Roseburn counter demo was, overwhelmingly, an older generation.
Read into that what you will. Scared of change? Perhaps, just don't know how they can be convinced, other than Option A going in and Roseburn becoming a much nicer place (because that will happen). At the moment it feels like a small vocal local minority who are determined that their area remains a depressing thoroughfare.
Posted 8 years ago # -
After several genuinely reasonable debates (and one eejit Ian Duncan Smith lookalike who left looking hurt and bewildered), I cycled back with Adam McVey who intimated the SNP have a different option which will "please everyone"....or (as he put it), make everyone hate them.
Nice to see everyone - thanks loads to ih, Stickman and Bike train for the Marshalling and also to chdot, Roibeard and gembo who stopped the traffic masterfully on West Coates and made us all (more or less) one group.
Posted 8 years ago # -
That was a good demo. I had some reasonable discussion with some of ther roseburn option B people. And the daughter of the art frame shop owner who is worried about her father's business tho he has been there 30 yuears. There was no damascene like conversions but we could at least chat. Sadly the 82 year old man with the red jacket and puce face was giving me a lot of finger pointing which I asked him to stop. I was very polite. The cafe owner was only interested in local people. The dog walking woman was concerned about pedestrians.
I bought a nice coffee from Buna which was the business actually doing business.
Posted 8 years ago # -
So that was interesting. As I cycled past the Option B protest at Roseburn I gave them a generic and cheerful 'Good morning.' and got told to 'bu**er off' from some poor soul in their protest who clearly hasn't understood that making friends with people is the basis of politics. Still, I'm a veteran of 2014 and probably won't lose too much sleep as a result.
Overlooking this initial contretemps a couple of us set out to spread some love to the Option B backers, figuring that cross-street eyeballing wasn't likely to lead to consensus any time soon.
I started by enquiring about the placard one chap was holding that said 'No cycle Track. Toxic RBS'. He believes that Option A is backed by RBS (and the Gogarburn Bicycle Users' Group) and that, as RBS is a 'criminal organisation' Option A is also criminal. I explained to him that he was objectively wrong and moved on to talk to his saner colleagues.
Chat was actually pretty good. I listened actively to what they said and managed to get a couple of ladies to agree that the issue was the limited space at Roseburn, and that we all wanted a better quality of life for everyone in Edinburgh. I told tales of cycling back home from work at the A8 business parks with my pockets full of money but taking the canal because Roseburn is so horrible. I asked what the business owners thought of that money bypassing their unwelcoming street.
It was great to have the chat there in the noise and fumes, with tipper trucks rumbling past. One man argued that increased cycling would increase pollution and I just pointed at the traffic, looked at him quizzically and asked if he wanted more of that and if not what it was he did want.
I found them trying to gang up on me a bit as they were all keen to unload and only a handful of us crossed the divide to engage so it was hard to answer one concern before another was raised. I just had to pull the 'May I answer this lady's concern before I address yours?' type of stunt wich is draining and stressful when dealing with agitated strangers but I hope should at least have given the impression of calm confidence even if I don't know all the details of both options. There was a bit of quite paranoid projection too - I was accused of being part of an 'active travel forum' but I just said I'd never heard of that, as indeed I haven't, and moved on.
So, there were monomaniacal nuts on both demos, but ours seemed more numerous and more inclined to dialogue and good manners. It'll be quite odd if the council choose Option B.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Very impressive turnout, really big "chapeau!" to the organisers
It really shows what a complete mess CEC made of Haymarket, when a cyclist lobby is promoting such a convoluted cross town route, as option A is.
Was heartening though to see big numbers of cyclists out. All the different sizes types and colours of bikes and varieties of outfits. Wonderful.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Well done to the organisers. Think that's the biggest, fastest organised event we've seen. Impressively young 'pro-cycling, active travel' profile mainly. (self excluded).
BBC took some footage from the UA. Not sure if Joanne Macaulay would catch PG launching himself towards us wearing his cycling attire. I think his message is that if you don't live in Roseburn you have no business cycling here in such numbers.
"Look at the chaos you have caused today! Where do you live? Why are you here etc...!?"
Maybe there were too many of us?!
Support for direct European style cycle route via Roseburn #OptionA by LaidBackBikes, on Flickr
Support for direct European style cycle route via Roseburn #OptionA by LaidBackBikes, on Flickr
Posted 8 years ago # -
@algo. Great to be able to help out. Thanks to Hankchief for loan of trailer and buddying me in along the A8 this morning.
Great turnout. Well done everyone.Posted 8 years ago # -
@IWRATS - I had a similar relatively conciliatory experience with some people who were initially very angry - unfortunately this was on the side of the street where most of "them" weren't so it wasn't very good management. Some of the arguments were so fantastical I wish I'd recorded them - particularly that pollution will get worse if people use buses. When there was a surprising reference to showers at work I though we'd veered far enough any relevant debate and I sought to converse elsewhere.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Great turnout.
As for politicians, I only recognised Green MSPs Alison Johnstone and Andy Wightman, and SNP councillor Adam McVey, but that probably says more about me than politicians. Any other spots?
Went to Cafe Colpamia afterwards (on Murrayfield Place just opposite the old bridge) and had very nice cappuccino and apple pastry. A Roseburn lady who rode with us told me it was the only cafe that didn't put a 'stop the track' poster up, so I thought I'd support it.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Well done to all involved: great turnout for such short notice.
I didn't bother trying to engage with the opponents: sitting through the community council and then the organised hate meeting has been more than enough for me, so kudos to those who crossed the divide.
Cycling in to Charlotte Square reinforced to me exactly why we need safe cycle lanes. I was following behind Claire who was riding her gorgeous new Dutch Gazelle. Exactly the sort of bike needed for city cycling. She was subjected to a really nasty close pass by an Airlink bus. Just the sort of thing that could be avoided if we build this.
Also nice to meet various forumites and put faces to names.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Any other spots?
Green Cllrs Corbett, Booth and Bagshaw were all there.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Had a nice coffee from there myself :)
Large group cycling is rather fun. Great job done by the organisers!
Posted 8 years ago # -
Labour Cllr Marion Donaldson and apparently one other labour councillor...
Posted 8 years ago # -
@algo
Yes indeed. Many seemed not to have realised that the consultation was over and that it was of little use to propose new and fantastical schemes to a private citizen such as I. I'm still trying to imagine what was meant by the gent who suggested fitting 'bicycle panniers to all bridges'.
In any case big up to all who organised and facilitated this morning's events.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I'm glad so many people came along. I found it quite stressful to be shouted at by the antis and hope it doesn't make life difficult for me in Roseburn. Well done for organising. It certainly doesn't make option b the easy way out politically.
Posted 8 years ago # -
that is certainly visionary - I'm not sure what vision exactly. Should we also campaign for rucksacks at every bus stop?
Posted 8 years ago #
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