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"Van driver with eight convictions for using his phone at the wheel killed a cyclist after reading a text"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/05/van-driver-with-eight-convictions-for-using-his-phone-at-the-whe/
Just yet another example of a driver who's proved he can't be trusted behind the wheel of a car being allowed to continue to drive - until the inevitable happens.
Cyclist had a wife and 2 daughters (12 and 15yo).
At his previous conviction,
"he pleaded with magistrates to keep his licence claiming it would cause 'excessive harm' to his family"
Typical.
Rather than point out that, if you need your license, it's your job to make sure you don't lose it, the courts removed all responsibility from him and let him continue to roll the dice on other people's lives.
Being discussed at length on BBC R4 Today.
Family members of this cyclist and a pedestrian wanting such to cases to involve charges of manslaughter.
Former Attorney General to be interviewed in half an hour.
Dominic Grieve on now.
'Causing death by dangerous driving now main tool. No evidence that manslaughter would result in longer sentences'
'Got to keep sense of proportion with other offences.'
Assuming he hadn't killed anyone but continued to use his phone and be caught for it, repeatedly, how many more times could this cycle recur before somebody said "oh hang on a minute, this isn't a viable strategy"?
'Dangerous driving serious offence, can be up to 14 years.'
'Fortunately most of time no consequences' (mobile use)
'Should be more pressure to make it unacceptable'
When I young it was a badge of honour to learn to drive. Neither my niece nor my nephew have learned. In part, it seems, they don't see the point of an expensive travel mode where you can't even use your phone!
When the bypass is backed up on winter mornings about half of drivers' faces are lit by the pale blue glow of the Facebook screen.
'Should be more pressure to make it unacceptable'
And start with the judges. The laws are in place. We don't need to change the laws, we just need to apply them.
Anyone texting and driving (or reading texts) is putting people's lives in danger. The rights of those people should be regarded as more important than the inconvenience of a ban and a fine/community service.
It all comes back to the same thing: that the right to drive is seen as some "human right" that should only ever be taken away in the most serious of circumstances.
'Fortunately most of time no consequences' (mobile use)
That's the same with Russian roulette. Most of the time, when you pull the trigger, you don't blow your brains out.
Contrast
Dalmarnock lorry driver handed 20 year ban over dangerous driving
The headline is misleading; the driver "was stripped of his HGV licence until at least 2035 - when he will be 75 - "in the interests of road safety"... after the Traffic Commissioner for Scotland, Joan Aitken, warned she would not wait for him to kill or injure someone before ending his career as a lorry driver."
"It all comes back to the same thing: that the right to drive is seen as some "human right" that should only ever be taken away in the most serious of circumstances."
In the early days of the motor carriage most observers probably didn't imagine everyone needing one and the roads eventually being full of the things, driven by people demanding the right to drive around everywhere and park where they liked. Normal people in the 1980s (except those who had read HHGTTG or watched Tomorrow's World) did not anticipate a future in which everyone had a portable electric telephone in their pocket. Now people are considering it a basic human right to be able to use mobile broadband on their portable telephone whilst propelling their personal motor-carriage.
That's the same with Russian roulette. Most of the time, when you pull the trigger, you don't blow your brains out.
And your chances of survival are even better when it is someone else's brains at risk.
This case was discussed on the Today Programme on Radio 4. It is currently available online: Should reckless drivers face tougher sentences?
Would it be seen as more serious if it were Manslaughter rather than Death by Dangerous Driving? There might be more longer-term consequences for the driver if they carried a conviction for manslaughter.
@morepathsplease I believe "Death by Dangerous Driving" was introduced as juries were very rarely convicting people of manslaughter for killing people with their cars.
No such offence as manslaughter in Scots law. Culpable homicide up here.
If someone is actually convicted of Death by dangerous driving, it's quite often a custodial sentence. This guy got nine years in prison. People have been given less for culpable homicide / manslaughter. Presumably his flagrant disregard for his recent conviction was an aggravating factor.
Death by careless driving on the other hand.....slap on the wrist and told how naughty you are, usually.
I have just watched a programme about laws and freedom of speech and stuff and although I can't remember the details, xty hundred years ago it was determined that juries could overrule laws that they think are stupid. Therefore you can charge killer drivers with whatever you want, the jury can just overrule it and find them not guilty anyway like they currently do anyway. So until the zietgiest of it being fine to drive however you want and woe betide anyone who gets in your way, a law change is a waste of time.
When the bypass is backed up on winter mornings about half of drivers' faces are lit by the pale blue glow of the Facebook screen.
I'm genuinely not able to remember the last time I went a day without seeing a driver texting. It's weeks ago, at least. Normally have the first spot before 8am.
From a year ago on this thread - interaction with texting driver at lights: http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3748&page=119#post-188121
"I'm genuinely not able to remember the last time I went a day without seeing a driver texting. It's weeks ago, at least. Normally have the first spot before 8am."
Part of the disruptive influence of technology. Leads to breakdowns of traditional decorum and acceptable behaviour in public.
Currently I'm on a train. Several rows back a woman is watching Corrie on her laptop. Across the aisle a guy is listening to Off The Ball podcast on his tablet. How do I know this? Neither of them using headphones and it's bloody LOUD.
There was a time when I would have asked them to shush. Now it's such a commonplace it almost feel unacceptable to do so. What a world we have inherited!
Well that is only going to get worse.
Remember when the main problem was sound leaking out of headphones?!
"Remember when the main problem was sound leaking out of headphones?!"
Oh that would be civilised in comparison!
I filtered past 15 cars this morning at the roadworks on St John's Road. 12 were single occupancy; 8 drivers were looking at their phones.
I noticed a car ahead of me drifting in and out of the bike lane while I was filtering down Rodney Street yesterday evening so carefully passed it, stopped and turned round to see the driver staring down at her phone. I mouthed something and she saw me, got a fright, raised her hand in apology and put the phone down immediately. Probably a good result but on reflection I think she probably just thought "oops, you got me!" rather than realising she could have knocked me off my bike if I'd been beside her when she drifted.
@stickman. I regularly see this too - and our car was shunted last year while stationary waiting to turn at a junction : strongly suspect the driver behind was distracted by her phone.
It's getting to the point where if given the choice between sharing the road with someone who'd been drinking and someone who uses their phone, I'm not sure which I'd prefer.
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