@Stickman - yes that was it. Awful news. Saw the motorcycle lying on the road. I've never seen any cyclist attempting to go up the WAR at that point though occasionally I've seen them cycling between Morrison Crescent & Fountainpark.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
"Mayhem" (the new word for chaos) + added “shambles”
(231 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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Hi Rosie, I read this as cyclist came through tunnel and turned right towards sainsburys as maybe still WAR going that way
Posted 7 years ago # -
@gembo - yes, that makes sense. I think of Westfield Road becoming the WAR past the tunnel but maybe wrong about that.
It's a horribly nasty right turn at the best of times (Sunday mornings only for me). At 5:20 on a winter's evening very hazardous.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Sorry - that's Stevenson Road, not Westfield Road.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
A spokesperson for Virgin Trains apologised for the chaos
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Posted 7 years ago # -
It should be in today’s rubbish train driving or rubbish points operation
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
Network Rail was responsible for more than half the delays on Scotland’s trains over the last year, a think-tank has said
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I think Craigentinny depot is run by East Coast.
It's all so complicated.
Someone should be sacked.
Posted 7 years ago # -
When can we look forward to an apology from Nicola Sturgeon for the Craigentinny chaos? Or is this all Westmonster's fault? I think we should be told.
In other news: "54 per cent of ScotRail’s delays of more than three minutes were a result of faults attributed to Network Rail, which is already a public body."
Hmmm. So while taking ScotRail into public ownership may be a good idea for all sorts of reasons, reliability ain't one of them. Just ask anyone who's old enough to have travelled on BR back in the day...
Posted 7 years ago # -
crowriver - if BR had received the taxpayer largesse that the private sector operators have over the last 20 years, our rail service would be the envy of the world.
Interesting short report produced by the TUC:
Posted 7 years ago # -
Good stuff in that report.
It's hard not to conclude that privatisation has been more expensive for taxpayers (whether or not they ever take a train).
All sorts of efficiencies and potentials have undoubtedly been blocked.
But the basic problem remains - however much UK residents 'love their trains' they love 'their roads' more.
Or maybe it's just that politicians assume they do (or perhaps think they should!)
Spending on roads is of course an investment. Rail infrastructure is more of a costly burden...
Public/private ownership and whether things should be primarily public services or business opportunities goes well beyond transport though...
Posted 7 years ago # -
It is very difficult to prove either way whether privatisation has been good or bad, because there is no control (in the experiment sense, but also some would argue insufficient control in the regulatory sense).
The UK railways suffered fundamental under-investment prior to privatisation and it's difficult to guess what would have happened had BR remained in charge. It's also a network that has many fundamental issues historically designed into it that would cost a fortune to sort out.
I've not gone through it in detail, but it looks like that report (perhaps deliberately - it's a TUC report) falls into a number of traps that assumes direct comparisons are possible. Eg, premiums paid by East Coast DOR vs West Coast Mainline (different lines, with different profiles); Comparisons with Europe are also difficult - population patterns, demand, historic use of pricing to control demand, age and layout of infrastructure, competition with roads etc - all this stuff makes the picture at best very tricky to decipher and at worst impossible.
Throw in some systemic and entrenched practices and attitudes (on all sides, the unions as much anyone else) and some conflicting attitudes over control and direction in government and you have a murky and confusing industry.
It's still the best way to travel long distance IMHO though.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"It's still the best way to travel long distance IMHO though."
Yes, despite it all...
Posted 7 years ago # -
@Morningsider, I have never (knowingly) travelled on the pre-Beeching cuts BR railways (or was too young to remember), so I cannot comment as to whether they were quicker, more punctual, or more heavily subsidised than our current bizarrely privatised railways.
I did however do a lot of travelling by rail from the early 1970s, and right through the 1980s and early 1990s.
For long distance InterCity travel, I would say not that much has changed. If anything the brand new Pendolinios and refurbished HSTs are less comfy than the trains in the 1970s. However I'd say ScotRail services are much more comfy than they were back then. Sleepers are not much changed at all.
Pricewise "normal" flexible rail fares seem crazily expensive now compared to back then. Indeed, the privatised system seems to be designed to eradicate journey flexibility at all costs, incentivising point-to-point, advance booked travel instead. It used to be that one could buy a ticket to, say Bristol or Aberdeen and break your journey on the way there at an intermediate station or even two, rejoining at said stations and continuing your journey. No longer possible, it seems, or at least actively discouraged through pricing and conductor behaviours. OTOH, according to National Rail Enquiries, on Off Peak and Super Off Peak tickets:
"Break of journey
Break of journey is allowed on the outward portion of Off-Peak tickets unless otherwise indicated by a restriction shown against the ticket's validity code and in all cases on the return portion of Off-Peak return tickets.
You may start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station along the route of travel on Off-Peak tickets unless the ticket restriction for the journey you are making does not allow it. "So maybe it is possible, or maybe not! Must look into this further...
In any case, except for special "Rover" tickets journey flexibility seems largely priced out of the ticket system.
Otherwise, would I trade my 1970s train for my 2016 one?
If travelling to London or points in England by InterCity, then probably yes. More legroom, comfier seats, proper dining car. (OTOH smoking allowed in many carriages too, and toilets dumping poo on the track directly upon flushing, not so nice).
If travelling within Scotland, no. The modern rolling stock is much more comfortable than the old slam door carriages. (OTOH proper guards vans were a great feature for carrying bikes and big items of luggage).
Sleeper services are probably a draw. As far as I recall (from before the franchise changed recently) they are essentially unchanged since the 1970s. Except you can't take your car with you via MotoRail while you sleep...
Posted 7 years ago # -
"The UK railways suffered fundamental under-investment prior to privatisation and it's difficult to guess what would have happened had BR remained in charge."
Yes, the main problem being the random views/actions of individual politicians/parties.
There has never been much chance of a rational transport policy in the U.K. Beeching is often blamed for all sorts of things, and also thanked for 'saving' the railways. He was investigating at a time when cars, motorways and rural buses were 'the future'. Not all of that has ended well.
"It's also a network that has many fundamental issues historically designed into it that would cost a fortune to sort out."
Possibly, partly, due the implementation of Beeching, where local interests/MPs in marginal seats stopped some of the proposed cuts.
"Fortune" of course could be the applied to London rail and tube extensions, HS2, new runways, A9 dualling etc etc., but never to fixing all the potholes or creating a decent ActiveTravel network anywhere!
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
Plans to bring a Garioch rail station back into use after 50 years could move a step closer later this week if transport bosses agree to millions of pounds worth of funding.
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Posted 7 years ago # -
Found a useful web site with some information on the different types of rail fares/tickets and whether or not you can break your journey. http://www.brfares.com
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
Transport minister Humza Yousaf said today it would be "all shoulders to the wheel" for ScotRail to turn round its performance after recent major disruption in Edinburgh and Glasgow.
It came as he published the full 249-point improvement plan which the operator has been ordered to complete to return punctuality to "acceptable" levels.
"
http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/scotrail-improvement-plan-published-in-full-1-4303824
Posted 7 years ago # -
Kintore Station is less than 4 miles from Inverurie Station. Seems like a lot of money for a small village station given another mainline station is so close by.
There'd be better justification in population alone re-opening say, Portobello Station or a station on the South Suburban line.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"There'd be better justification in population alone re-opening say, Portobello Station or a station on the South Suburban line."
Must be something to do with local politics...
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Must be something to do with local politics..."
No doubt. If the local council / regional transport authority put up most of the money, I suppose it's fair enough.
Just think about the cycling facilities they could build with £12.2 million...
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
Kintore railway station was a railway station in Kintore, Aberdeenshire. It served as a junction between the main line, and an abandoned branch to Alford. It was closed in 1964 as part of the Beeching Cuts.
NESTRANS initially raised the possibility of reopening the station in 2009, as part of its 2010-2021 Rail Action Plan.[2] and it was first discussed in the Scottish Parliament in October that year.[3]
Plans to reopen the station were announced in December 2012[4] and in February 2014, Aberdeenshire West MSP Dennis Robertson raised the issue in parliament for a second time.[5]
Aberdeenshire Council, Network Rail and Nestrans hope to have it reopened by 2019.[6] This will form part of a wider £170 million project to upgrade the Aberdeen to Inverness Line, which will also see the Aberdeen to Inverurie section have its double track reinstated.[7] Funding for this project is being supplied by Transport Scotland on behalf of the Scottish Government.
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Posted 7 years ago # -
"
NESTRANS initially raised the possibility of reopening the station in 2009
"
Compare that with the South Sub or Porty!!
Posted 7 years ago # -
I presume it helps if you have prominent members of the ruling party of government living nearby...
I must say I'm supportive of re-opening stations and rail improvements in general. It's just a bit odd the disparity in rail provision between Edinburgh and Glasgow, for example.
Posted 7 years ago # -
PS - you are right, there is very little evidence on the effectiveness of GB rail privatisation. This is an issue that I have looked into in some detail and there is very little in the way of solid academic research - the articles that have been published are often contradictory and clearly influenced by the views of the authors (as with the TUC, although I generally think their stuff is pretty good).
That said, sometimes you just have to go with your gut - a natural monopoly was split into over 100 entities, so Labour couldn't easily put it all back together following the inevitable 1997 landslide. The inefficiencies and profiteering are rampant - Network Rail employ 167 full time staff just to work out who is to blame for trains being late, so fines can be levied (often paid from public subsidies paid to one company to another). How can that make sense?
Posted 7 years ago # -
@Morningsider
A good friend of mine is a very talented capitalist. He made a lot of money from transactions involving rolling stock leasing companies in the mid-nineties.
Even he regards rail and mail privatisations as catastrophes. Both are self-evidently better run as state monopolies.
My grandfather shovelled coal on the Aberdeen to London train in an open cab for decades. As compensation both the toilet roll and tea set in his house were branded 'British Rail' but in the grand scheme of things I'd say theft is more prevalent and serious in our era.
Posted 7 years ago # -
There's a Dorothy L Sayers short story where a character says "Only 20 minutes late? I call that very good for a Bank Holiday..." and the plebs have been let into 1st class because the train is crowded... this will be in the 1920s or 30s and always leaves me thinking that not much has changed.
Isn't the fact that our gauge is narrower and our bridges and tunnels smaller than on the continent an insoluble problem too?
Posted 7 years ago # -
@Morningsider a natural monopoly was split into over 100 entities, so Labour couldn't easily put it all back together following the inevitable 1997 landslide. The inefficiencies and profiteering are rampant
Oh, you're right - the way it's been split is a real mess. TBH though, my gut feel is that this issue is less the TOCs (many of whom are not making anywhere near as much profit as people think) but with the rolling stock companies, who, due to lack of government investment, have been able to make an awful lot of cash out of assets that have been paid off already. Network Rail isn't exactly world class either.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Isn't the fact that our gauge is narrower and our bridges and tunnels smaller than on the continent an insoluble problem too?
Yes - especially for capacity. We can't fit the double deckers that add a lot of extra seats on commuter services on the continent. And freight wagons have to be smaller, so less efficient.
Posted 7 years ago # -
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Since privatisation in 1995, the ROSCOs have faced criticism from a number of quarters - including passenger train operating companies such as GNER, Arriva and FirstGroup - on the basis that they are acting as an oligopoly to keep lease prices higher than would be the case in a more competitive market.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Great_Britain#Train_leasing_services
Posted 7 years ago #
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