CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Sheriffhall Roundabout consultation etc.

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  1. Frenchy
    Member

    Did anyone else who went to the exhibition at Sheriffhall ask about the estimated cost of the three options?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Had to drive through the new Raith Interchange (M74/A725) me E Kilbride earlier - there's at least 3 'active travel' bridges spanning the routes for I imagine much less potential modal share than Sheriffhall. Why are we still desperately asking for crumbs from the table at Sheriffhall?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. Frenchy
    Member

  4. Frenchy
    Member

    Evidence was given to the Public Petitions Committee at Holyrood this morning about Gorebridge Community Trust's petition. The petition came about after the Sheriffhall decision, but also dealt with the general consultation process.

    If anyone wants to watch, it can be seen here: http://www.scottishparliament.tv/Archive/Index/232073b4-d7ee-42b0-9f04-a97f381b166e?categoryId=7d46ed09-a9b6-4b26-b5e8-f896986e4249&parentCategoryClicked=False&pageNumber=1&orderByField=ScheduledStart&queryOrder=DESC

    Starts at 1:04:15, lasts about 30 minutes, and there are some familiar faces.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  5. DdF
    Member

    Also tweeted here.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    "

    It will also help fund the new Sheriffhall roundabout on the City Bypass.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/1bn-edinburgh-city-deal-finally-agreed-1-4508790

    Posted 11 months ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    "

    As one of the designers who worked on the original scheme, the preferred alignment at Sheriffhall was a grade separated junction similar to all other junctions on the City Bypass.

    However, there is a geological fault which crosses the bypass at this location and at that time the Coal Board objected to any form of grade separation – either flyover or underpass.

    "

    https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21988

    Posted 11 months ago #
  8. crowriver
    Member

    Interesting map at the link you posted.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  9. Arellcat
    Moderator

    There's also at least one long-standing remnant of old mine workings, right under the carriageway to the west of the roundabout. It's marked 'Shaft'* on the mid-1800s map, and 'Old Shaft' on the late 1800s/early 1900s map. One wonders how extensive the mine workings were, 150 years ago.

    The NLS also has a 1955 geological map in which Sheriffhall sits right on the boundary between productive and non-productive coal measures.

    http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=12&lat=55.9243&lon=-3.1400&layers=10geol&b=1

    (legend here)

    * "What's the most important thing in a coal mine, apart from coal?" "Shaft!" etc.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Green councillor Melanie Main said: “Of course £600m is an awful lot of money, so any additional investment has to be welcome. However, the truth is that the offer is less than what was expected and what is missing is as important as what is included.

    “On transport, the priority should be dramatic improvements to public transport, walking and cycling; instead the centrepiece is the Sheriffhall roundabout.

    "

    http://www.theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2017/07/city-region-deal-will-be-on-the-table-later-today-for-signing/

    Posted 11 months ago #
  11. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Old coal mine workings in the tunnel’s path have been found to be so extensive that more grout has had to be pumped in to stabilise them than was used to shore up coalfields crossed by the Borders Railway in Midlothian.

    "

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/shieldhall-intrepid-tunnellers-save-glasgow-from-floods-1-4511576

    Posted 11 months ago #
  12. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I read a book about the Lothians coalfields a while back.

    The way it described to think about the geology and coal seams here is as a series of concentric "bathtubs", flat at the bottom running out under the Forth and then rising up ever more vertically towards the surface around Gilmerton, Loanhead and Monktonhall area. You can see it in the maps above.

    Some of the pits worked the relatively flat, deep seems - Bilston Glen, Monktonhall, Lady Victoria, Newcraighall etc.

    Others such as Gilmerton and the Burghlee and Ramsay at Loanhead worked the shallower seems in a more unconventional manner, effectively digging down through steeply angled seems rather than how we imagine a coal mine working wide faces out horizontally from the bottom of a shaft. It was much harder to work but the coal was of coking value so it was worth doing. It was also dangerous, and Gilmerton pit shut in the 1950s after old workings it was connected to into which rubbish was being tipped caught fire, the whole coal face acting like a giant lum.

    The reason that the Coal Board may have been quite so vociferous in opposition when the Bypass was being built was that at the time both Monktonhall and Bilston Glen were active pits, and the fault was a barrier between the workings. The barrier was critical to keeping the ventilation and water removal arrangements of the 2 pits separate. There were plans mooted at the time to connect the workings and run the pits from a single pithead as an economy measure but these came to nothing. Anything that disturbed the geology between the 2 pits would probably have been a no go for them.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    "The reason that the Coal Board may have been quite so vociferous in opposition when the Bypass was being built was that at the time both Monktonhall and Bilston Glen were active pits, and the fault was a barrier between the workings."

    Indeed, how long ago did they shut??

    Wonder if there is anything left in the coal communities fund to pay for the cycle upgrade option?

    Posted 11 months ago #
  14. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Bilston Glen never really opened again after the Miner's Strike, it was too badly flooded out inside as maintenance pumping hadn't continued throughout the strike. think it officially shut in '89. They went to the effort of building a tunnel under the bypass for the railway, which is handy for the cycling link! Monktonhall solidered on until '97.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  15. neddie
    Member

    Letter from Humza Yousaf regarding active travel provision at Sheriffhall:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/lwqsra2n24ssrtk/2017.0019731.pdf?dl=0

    Summary: Cycling is an afterthought - we're designing that bit last...

    Posted 11 months ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Transport was expected to be one of the bigger ticket items, but despite some grandiose language it’s hardly a game-changer and I find myself in the unusual position of having some sympathy with the Greens about the inclusion of work on the Sheriffhall Roundabout. Of course, the Greens would rather it wasn’t happening at all while I’ve been calling for an upgrade for longer than I care to remember, but we can both agree that such long-awaited trunk road improvements should come from the Scottish Government’s transport budget and not masquerade as a visionary investment.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/john-mclellan-city-deal-is-ambition-not-real-commitment-1-4514704

    Posted 10 months ago #
  17. neddie
    Member

    If the A701 truely becomes a public transport / active travel corridor it will need to be properly linked into Sheriffhall, with a safe crossing...

    http://www.midlothianadvertiser.co.uk/news/plans-on-the-right-road-1-4551536

    Although this paragraph from the article pretty much sums up everything that is wrong with transport policy:

    To relieve traffic congestion on the existing A701 and to provide a new link road between the A703 and the A702, the existing A701 would become a primary route for public transport, walking and cycling, while the new A702 spur road would provide improved access to the Easter Bush campus, where major science-based academic, research and manufacturing premises are located.

    Building new roads to relieve congestion... Uh errr

    Old roads magically become free of cars, for buses to use... Uh errr

    Buses and bikes get to use the old windey roads that don't go to the fabby new useful places like research centres... Uh errr

    Posted 9 months ago #
  18. chdot
    Admin

    "

    The council has approved spending £1.4 million of developer contributions on preparatory works for a new A701 relief road and A702 spur road.

    "

    Doesn't say how much whole cost will be.

    No doubt expecting more 'dc' from extra ribbon developments.

    Wonder how strong the campaign against this new 'roads will solve the problem' plan will be.

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/bilston-glen-camp-determined-to-beat-bypass-plans-1-2129314

    Posted 9 months ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

  20. Stickman
    Member

  21. crowriver
    Member

    MSP Miles Briggs: "“If the minister needs to be convinced of the rationale to reduce congestion on the road, perhaps he should try to use it each day at peak times and face being stuck in lengthy queues and traffic jams like so many of my constituents myself.”

    FTFY Miles.

    Maybe let the train take the strain every other day? (Or bus).

    "Shadow Minister for Public Health" indeed.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  22. acsimpson
    Member

    I heard a rumour they are reworking the design to incorporate active travel.

    Miles should be happy that they are talking about 2019. That seems quick compared to the Roseburn to Leith cycle path.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    “I heard a rumour they are reworking the design to incorporate active travel.”

    You mean better than the option they rejected??

    Posted 6 months ago #
  24. Frenchy
    Member

    You mean better than the option they rejected??

    I'm not sure when Transport Scotland will announce this, and I don't want to count chickens before they hatch, but there's some information on Spokes' website here: http://www.spokes.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/1710-workshop-notes-by-M-A.pdf

    Posted 6 months ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

    INTERESTING!

    So this is after they had 'decided'(?)

    "

    It was clear that lots of work was still to be done. The roundabout is on a fault line and there are also old mine shafts which might impact design. Also, depending on future predicted demand and developments they may reduce the number of arms and underpasses.

    "

    So mostly up in the air - just like Picardy Place (maybe).

    Posted 6 months ago #
  26. Frenchy
    Member

    So this is after they had 'decided'(?)

    Yes, although they say they say their plan all along was to include cycling infrastructure. With "Option C", it was just more obvious how that would be done, so it was included in the plans from the start.

    This becoming part of the City Deal might have opened the purse strings a wee bit for the active travel bit. I'm hoping they'll spend some of the money on providing good connections alongside the A7 and A6106, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

    The (relatively new) CEO of Transport Scotland is apparently far more supportive than his predecessors, as well.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    A contractor has been selected to take forward vital ground investigations as part of the work to build a flyover on the busy Sheriffhall junction on the Edinburgh City Bypass.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/new-flyover-at-busy-sheriffhall-junction-moves-a-step-closer-1-4645648

    Posted 6 months ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

    GROUND investigation work for the new flyover at the Sheriffhall junction is to start next Monday.

    The Scottish Government announced the flyover plans last year in a bid to tackle congestion and long delays and the A720 City Bypass.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/initial-work-to-start-for-sheriffhall-flyover-1-4683045

    Posted 4 months ago #
  29. Frenchy
    Member

    Having contacted CEC and Transport Scotland about infrastructure on the roads leading to Sheriffhall, I basically received these responses:

    Transport Scotland: That's a good idea - why don't you ask the local authorities if they could do it?

    CEC: That's a great idea - perhaps Transport Scotland could pay for it?

    ...this could go on a while...

    Meanwhile, Midlothian Council is proposing shared use paths on the A6106 (north and south of the roundabout) and the A7 (only south), which is good news.

    Posted 2 months ago #

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