CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
"Cycling with headphones kills mother as coroner says she caused her own death"
(17 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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Totally the fault of the headphones (not):
"He concluded: "I cannot determine if she was on her iPhone listening with earphone at the time, but if she had been, it could have caused a distraction and could have contributed to the cause of the accident."
"Professor Marks [the coroner] said because of a fitting defect in the front brake caused by the cable being too short, she may have applied the rear brake causing a skid."
Posted 7 years ago # -
We just don't belong on the same tarmac as HGVs. No slight on their drivers, some of whom are highly professional, but the two are just incompatible. HGVs must be terrifying to people just starting to ride, and bicycles must be a constant knot in the stomach for most HGV drivers, especially in urban areas.
Posted 7 years ago # -
That's a bit bizarre. Reading the article, it sounds as if the judge exonerated the driver because she *might* have listening to music, even though there's no proof that she was ... I assume there was an (unreported) witness of some sort who saw her riding along obliviously beforehand. Nothing about how close the lorry passed her or how fast it was going at the time.
Twice in the last couple of weeks I've been startled by a vehicle (a car fortunately rather than an HGV) because it came past me too fast and too close (in one case I actually found myself saying words that I'm not allowed to repeat on this forum). In both cases I could hear the car, but didn't expect it to come quite so close. I could easily see how this might startle you into losing control of your bike and in my opinion this would still be the fault of the driver. I also question the competence of a lorry driver who managed to pass a cyclist close enough to startle her without seeing her at all.
As for the headphones, what kind of sound does an iPhone put out that you can't hear an HGV coming up behind you?
Posted 7 years ago # -
Emily Norton, 38, entered a roundabout without looking right at the same time as a DAF HGV lorry was exiting the roundabout.
Obviously we haven't got all the details, but if that bit is true it is hard to see how you can blame the lorry driver. Sometimes people make mistakes, sometimes those people ride bikes.Posted 7 years ago # -
Ah, right, I hadn't read anything about that. I can see how that makes a difference. I was assuming it was an overtake.
Edited to add: I see that's right at the beginning of the article too - just shows how frequently we look but do not see!
Posted 7 years ago # -
Another day on the roads, sadly.
I thought that the mere presence of a motor vehicle causing an accident meant that the driver had to stop?
Posted 7 years ago # -
Only if the driver is aware that an accident has taken place.
Posted 7 years ago # -
On Radio Scotland now.
Cycle training instruction is based on observation. If you have a hearing impairment you can still learn to cycle or drive.
Posted 7 years ago # -
And how many drivers can actually hear anything in their insulated car (or noisy truck) cabins?
Posted 7 years ago # -
"If you have a hearing impairment you can still learn to cycle or drive."
Indeed, but if you have such an impairment, you are naturally trained to compensate for the impairment, not the case for someone wearing headphones. They have no heightened sesnses to compensate.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@edd1e_h that's exactly what I was thinking...
Kevin Clinton, from the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, didn't say: "Hearing is an important sense when driving as it gives drivers warning about the approach of nearby vehicles and an idea of their speed. We advise drivers not to wear headphones or listen to music when driving and to open all of their windows."
Posted 7 years ago # -
I'd love to know the difference between the sound of a car thats about to kill me and the one thats about to scare the bejeezus out of me, until then...
Posted 7 years ago # -
I also seem to recall that Rachael Aldred (of the near miss project fame) has done some work in this area which indicated that that cyclists using headphones are more aware of the environmental sounds around them than other transport users.
There was also a cycling magazine in Australia who did some kind of trials and they suggested that drivers listening to the radio at a normal level hear less than cyclists wearing listening to music on headphones.
Posted 7 years ago # -
There is no way of proving, one way or the other whether wearing headphones contributed to this accident. All you can say is that , apparently, the cyclist concerned acted as if she was unaware of the lorry and that headphones might have been implicated in that. But as with all this type of thing headphones are neither completely safe nor are they unequivocally dangerous. There may be occasions when they reduce the level of situational awareness to cause an accident. This sounds as if it could be one of those cases.
I don't think comparing cyclists & headphones with cars is particularly helpful. Each mode of transport has different aspects which reduce or enhance safety. Cars would be safer if the driver could reliably hear what was going on around them. Bikes would be safer if they had crumple zones and airbags. The nature of the vehicles means that certain things aren't practicable. The question for me is, do you want to throw away a safety benefit which is inherently part of your chosen mode of transport?Posted 7 years ago # -
" All you can say is that , apparently, the cyclist concerned acted as if she was unaware of the lorry and that headphones might have been implicated in that."
I'm not even sure that we can infer that the victim was wearing earphones, neither that, if she had been, that the earphones played any part in her death. All we can say with any certainty is that the lorry driver did not see her, which is why the comments of the coroner are troubling.
The reporting was also poor. The "brake issue" was particularly unclear, and possibly irrelevant. The death was supposed to have happened at a roundabout on Flatgate, Howden, Yorkshire. I Google mapped that road and there is no roundabout.
Actually the report has just been amended to say that the coroner could not determine if she was wearing phones, but if she had been, they might have contributed to the death. Not much better imo. Although I personally would recommend not wearing earphones, I don't think it appropriate for the coroner to make this sort of comment.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Posted 7 years ago #
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