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General Election 8th June

(493 posts)
  • Started 7 years ago by chdot
  • Latest reply from I were right about that saddle

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  1. algo
    Member

    Edinburgh South is a conflicting place to be for me. My SNP canvasser came to show me the scary graph of STV first preferences in the wards that make up Edinburgh South. There's a lot of potential for error in that graph and really to me it shows that it's a 3-horse race.

    I told him the party I most identify with was the Greens, but that was I intending to vote Labour. He then said "So you're voting tactically then" - actually no - if I vote tactically it'll be for the SNP if I believe that they are the only party that can beat the Tories. Labour are delivering the same message. Also my yes-voting labour supporting stance is only just holding on by a thread. Even chatting to the ever eloquent IWRATS has not made my position feel any more consistent to me.

    The best question I heard asked to the SNP canvasser was as to why they are standing a candidate in Glasgow North and splitting the independence vote.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  2. SRD
    Moderator

    Algo I suspect we have similar tendencies and past voting, but I'm voting SNP in Ed South this time - for lots of reasons, but especially because JIm Eadie was an excellent MSP, and a key pro-cycling voice within the SNP.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  3. chdot
    Admin

    "JIm Eadie was an excellent MSP, and a key pro-cycling voice within the SNP"

    I don't remember him as an MSP apart from his work with Alison Johnson on the all party cycling group - regular update letters.

    'We' got Ian Murray to PoP on the back of SRD's tandem (piloted by Kezia Dugdale).

    I'm sure 'cycling credentials' will influence some people (perfectly reasonably). Some will vote 'to keep the Tory out', others 'Unionist candidate most likely to win'.

    The last one might be a difficult call - largely unknowable and subject to enthusiasm/misinformation...

    Posted 6 years ago #

  4. algo
    Member

    @SRD - thanks - yes I appreciate you saying how you will vote. I like JIm Eadie very much - in comparison to Neil Hay there is no contest. This is precisely why I'm conflicted - I actually don't much like Ian Murray (selected past voting records on austerity, huge overreaction to various very benign pro-Corbyn protests outside his offices etc...) but he's been an attentive MP.

    I find it hard to want to vote SNP (and its strict toeing the line policy, despite its nature as a coalition), on account of various policies with which I fundamentally disagree - scrapping air passenger duty for example. I understand though that they have to promote business interests in Scotland, but this is a general election - I am voting for the party to oppose the tories in the UK not Scotland. One day I hope we get proper electoral reform and representative governance (possibly through independence) and the left of SNP (whatever that will become) will be in the general direction of where my votes will go.

    I invite reasoned disagreement, coercion and outright insults in response to that.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    "I invite reasoned disagreement, coercion and outright insults in response to that."

    Rule 1 applies even after that invite!

    I think algo sums up some of the 'conflictions' well.

    No party can get everything 'right' and that's certainly a factor in why I have never joined one.

    Many people (probably not so many on here) don't identify with any of them (or at least don't believe that they c/would 'make things better') - so don't vote.

    But the 'stay-at-home Party' never puts up candidates so someone else gets in, often with 1/3 of the votes and perhaps a 1/5 of the voters' backing.

    And party leaders claim victory and mandates.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  6. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Edinburgh South has become a sort of absurd test case for FPTP, which I understand to be predicated on the proposition that each constituency is a community choosing its preferred representative from the list. I've lived in various parts of the constituency for most of my adult life, but never ever felt that it constitutes a community in the way that Tobermory or Strathnairn do. Gracemount and Greenbank are largely unknown to each other.

    If you stick a thick layer of constitutional disagreement on top of this it's hard to see how the result of a general election can fail to disappoint and irritate the majority of people. What we really need is STV based on a multi-member city-wide constituency. It's Edinburgh that's the community after all, even if it's a divided one.

    It is deeply unfair that so many of the thoughtful people on CCE have to engage in such contortions when asked what ought to be (apologies to the political scientists) a reasonably simple question.

    As an example of the level of absurdity involved Colin Fox is campaigning for Jim Eadie in a personal capacity. They know and like each other, but even so....

    Posted 6 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    "As an example of the level of absurdity involved Colin Fox is campaigning for Jim Eadie in a personal capacity. They know and like each other,"

    But is that absurd?

    In spite of being in different parties perhaps they agree, politically, on many things(?)

    Presumably they agree on 'independence', if nothing else.

    Or perhaps 'personal' is more important than politics?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    "a reasonably simple question"

    (Genuinely) which one?

    Best person to represent a demographically diverse section of Edinburgh?

    Representative of the party you mostly agree with?

    The one in the party most likely to form a Government?

    Member of a group best positioned to provide strong opposition?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  9. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    (Genuinely) which one?

    I imagine the question ought to be 'Who do you (yes you, voter!) want to represent you in the parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

    It gets all muddled up in who speaks for Edinburgh South, who should be Prime Minister, is Nicola Sturgeon the Antichrist and so on. There are several people on CCE I would rather have speak for me ahead of any of the candidates actually available.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  10. HankChief
    Member

    "There are several people on CCE I would rather have speak for me ahead of any of the candidates actually available."

    CCE party?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  11. algo
    Member

    But is that absurd?

    Colin Fox is currently quite vociferously (as you would expect) supporting the EIS strikes - that makes backing an SNP candidate quite absurd in my eyes - it must be (as IWRATS says I think) because of Jim Eadie personally, who I should imagine (haven't checked) is also supporting these strikes.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  12. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    But is that absurd?

    Not in the real world, no, but viewed through the polarised glasses of politicians and journalists where parties 'have' voters it's incomprehensible.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  13. Frenchy
    Member

    It gets all muddled up in who speaks for Edinburgh South, who should be Prime Minister, is Nicola Sturgeon the Antichrist and so on. There are several people on CCE I would rather have speak for me rather than any of the candidates actually available.

    Only several?

    I used to know very little about Jim Eadie and his politics before I received one of his leaflets. I still know very little about him, but I used to too.

    Ian Murray and I agree on just about every issue that I think is important. Maybe he knew from my questions what I was hoping his answer would be, and he gives different answers when chapping doors in Morningside. The issues we disagree on are rather prominent, though, and he seems emphatically dogmatic about them.

    At the moment, I don't think I'll be able to bring myself to vote for either of them.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  14. SRD
    Moderator

    @frenchy - yes, I will also agree that everytime there was an issue at Westminster important enough for me to write to Ian Murray about his vote, he was voting the way I would have hoped.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  15. gembo
    Member

    SNP needs an opposition that is not the Tories. They have effectively annihilated Scottish labour with the knock on effect of opening the door for the Tories. I think the Tories will return in Edinburgh pentlands which will make Edinburgh taxi drivers happy.

    I am sure Jim is a decent chap - he fell out with coincillor cardownie is that right?

    Vote labour for a plural society ( with added Tories)?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  16. Frenchy
    Member

    I am sure Jim is a decent chap - he fell out with coincillor cardownie is that right?

    Not sure about Jim Eadie, but Jim Orr (councillor for Southside/Newington until this month) definitely fell out with Cardownie.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  17. gembo
    Member

    Thanks Frenchy, I confused my jims there.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  18. SRD
    Moderator

    Jim Eadie was pretty sound as an MSP on issues beyond just cycling, but he's also the sort of person who I'd like to see having more influence within the SNP.

    I was never going to vote for Hay in the last election, even before the 'scandal' broke, but Eadie's a different proposition.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  19. SRD
    Moderator

    "As an example of the level of absurdity involved Colin Fox is campaigning for Jim Eadie in a personal capacity. They know and like each other, but even so...."

    And Robin Harper (former Green MSP) is on Ian Murray's leaflets! Crazy world we live in.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  20. kaputnik
    Moderator

    And Robin Harper (former Green MSP) is on Ian Murray's leaflets! Crazy world we live in.

    And yon Blair McDougall has a glowing report from Tory MSP Jackson Carslaw on his!

    Posted 6 years ago #

  21. kaputnik
    Moderator

    If Ian Murray gets back in, as I assume he probably will, does he still intend to refuse to serve in his party's [shadow] cabinet under Jeremy?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  22. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    does he still intend to refuse to serve in his party's [shadow] cabinet under Jeremy?

    No. Apparently Mr Corbyn is no longer too old or divisive to be leader.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  23. chdot
    Admin

    "If Ian Murray gets back in, as I assume he probably will"

    Suspect not - unless Tories 'indicate' he should be voted for(?)

    Posted 6 years ago #

  24. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Suspect not - unless Tories 'indicate' he should be voted for(?)

    I guess that's unlikely, they've fair got a confident spring in their step just now. Pride and falls and all that, however, they are coming across rather like they've drunk their own Kool Aid right now.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  25. algo
    Member

    @kaputnik - I hope you're right. Have you got a link to the Jackson Carslaw report on Blair McDougall's leaflets? I can't find it (probably due to general incompetence).

    Posted 6 years ago #

  26. wangi
    Member

    "If all the other candidates are in Porty, who on earth is she Husting with?!"
    Aye, exactly. I don't even think there are other hustings that night...

    Posted 6 years ago #

  27. chdot
    Admin

    I'd have thought she'd be keener to do a hustings in Porty than some other places.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  28. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @algo it was doing the rounds on twitter, I'll look it out later and tweet it at you.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  29. algo
    Member

    @kaputnik - ta - how modern. I will acknowledge receipt with one of my carrier pigeons.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  30. kaputnik
    Moderator

    You've got tweets.

    Posted 6 years ago #

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