QuietRoute 30: Holyrood Park Road to Ratcliffe Terrace

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QuietRoute 30: Holyrood Park Road to Ratcliffe Terrace

(30 posts)

Started 6 years ago by Klaxon
Latest reply from Frenchy

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Klaxon
Member

New AECOM Survey - runs until June 30

https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/design-cycle-walk-holyrood-park-ratcliffe-terrace/

'Meadows to Holyrood' style intervention to get people across Dalkeith Rd (and rapidly off the main road again and out of sight out of mind)

Forget getting round any corners if you have a Torpedo or Urban Arrow.

S'pose I should let you make your own mind up but I'm really bothered by AECOM's continuing designs that just give up segregation, use Toucans at every junction, and do this weird angle thing that makes cyclists cut corners in a blind fashion over pavements.

Posted 6 years ago #
Frenchy
Member

Someone on here was suggesting banning right turns from the Scottish Widows car park. Now would be a good time to raise that!

Posted 6 years ago #
crowriver
Member

This link could be crucial for my son safely cycling to school (if he wants to, and the weather's okay). So I'll be taking a keen interest.

Posted 6 years ago #
Klaxon
Member

The narrowing of Holyrood Pk Rd at East Parkside to one lane each way is only to be welcomed.

I wish such good judgement could be shown at the other end, where outside the Commie both Dalkeith Rd and Holyrood Pk Rd are shown to remain at 5 lanes.

Huge numbers of first year students are regularly strewn over the road as little consideration is made to desire lines into Pollock Halls.

The whole area is designed around allowing high volumes of vehicles to rat run through the park :/

Posted 6 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"Huge numbers of first year students are regularly strewn over the road"

You mean as pedestrians??

Posted 6 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"The whole area is designed around allowing high volumes of vehicles to rat run through the park"

Quite probably.

Would be worth finding out what was explicitly in the brief from CEC and how much they just start from a 'minimum disruption to motorists' assumption.

Posted 6 years ago #
crowriver
Member

On first glance it seems a good scheme. Lots of continuous footway across junctions, segregated cycle tracks, decent crossings and so on.

The main problem I can see is the entrance to Holyrood Park itself, which is just on the edge of the first drawing. The segregated track continuing to the gate is useful if coming from the park itself, as it can be accessed either from the footpath in the park or from the road. However cyclists entering the park and intending to travel north are just spat out onto the wrong side of the road here, to mix it with traffic coming downhill from the roundabout in the park, notionally at 20mph.

In practical terms, I suppose most would opt instead to use the toucan and get onto the correct side of the road, but it seems odd to continue two way segregated track to the gate without directing cyclists onto the footpath instead.

A better solution would be to go round the outside of the gates, but I'm guessing there's not enough space and this would need to be shared use, with the attendant pedestrian/cyclist conflict.

Posted 6 years ago #
Murun Buchstansangur
Member

The Blacket Place junction drawings totally ignore the existence of the (presumably architecturally protected) stone pillars which potentially make either of AECOM's chosen options useless on a bike. Utterly bizarre and cackhanded.

Posted 6 years ago #
Morningsider
Member

MB - yep, the gate piers at the entrance to Blacket Place are part of the Listed Building designation for 62 Dalkeith Road:

http://portal.historicenvironment.scot/designation/LB28623

Not impossible to sort out - but would require permission to move.

It's not a bad scheme, although I agree with Crowriver about the Holyrood Park entrance. My main issue is the total lack of ambition. It would seem quite easy to run segregated cycle lanes on either side of Holyrood Park Road and Dalkeith Road - they are huge. I'm pretty sure that would be the solution in Copenhagen etc. Still, might mean "loss of parking" - which seems to be beyond the pale.

Posted 6 years ago #
jonty
Member

They've wiped out 11 spaces on one of the diagram, so clearly not totally forbidden. Lanes on both sides would surely give them more scope for maintaining parking would it not?

Posted 6 years ago #
cb
Member

The large double car-width layby on the north side of Holyrood Park Road seems to survive intact. But maybe that leaves scope later for joining up to Dalkeith Road heading towards town.

Not much at the west end of the route. In fact there are not really any changes here at all, and some of these roads to get used as through-routes/rat runs.

Posted 6 years ago #
southsider
Member

"Not much at the west end of the route. In fact there are not really any changes here at all, and some of these roads to get used as through-routes/rat runs."

I was very disappointed to see that when I first looked at the plans. But looking again in detail it appears they are proposing to reverse the one-way direction of the eastern half of Duncan Street. As someone who can rides this route daily I think this is great because:
(1) it will prevent people rat running through Duncan Street and the Blackets,
(2) it will mean no cars waiting to exit Duncan Street into Minto Street, this has 2 narrow car lanes so no space to filter past on a bike and it can take ages to clear,
(3) maintain full vehicle access to Duncan Street.

I think they need to move parking from the contra flow side of the road to the with-flow side, otherwise folk on bikes are going to have to wiggle around parked cars into oncoming traffic.

Posted 6 years ago #
Frenchy
Member

Anyone go to the exhibition last night?

Posted 6 years ago #
MV
Member

Reminder: consultation closes today

Posted 6 years ago #
neddie
Member

(Accidental) breakaway thread:

http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17870

Posted 6 years ago #
Roibeard
Member

Delayed due to staff shortages. Report now available Q1 2018 with design completion in 2018/19.

Robert

Posted 6 years ago #
gembo
Member

The cycling officer I knew did get a job else where within the machine. Hence the delays to all these consultation surveys./ summaries

Posted 6 years ago #
neddie
Member

On behalf of the City of Edinburgh Council I would like to notify you of updates to the Holyrood Park to Ratcliffe Terrace walking and cycling improvement scheme. You are being contacted in this instance as a stakeholder for the project or you have previously responded to earlier consultations.

Following the earlier consultation on the route design proposals a consultation report has been completed which summarises the findings of the consultation and the Council’s responses to them. This can now be accessed via the following link;
https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/design-cycle-walk-holyrood-park-ratcliffe-terrace/

Based on the high levels of support, the council intends to proceed with the scheme. However, due to a current lack of resources they have temporarily put this scheme on hold. All consultees who have asked to be kept informed about the scheme, will be notified once it progresses to the next stage of public engagement, at the end of detailed design.

Posted 5 years ago #
chdot
Admin

“due to a current lack of resources they have temporarily put this scheme on hold”

ThisIsEdinburgh.

Actually This IsCEC.

I recommend* some concerted activity highlighting the number of consultations and subsequent ‘no resources’.

Given the 10% of transport budget, this is not exactly true - more about allocation of resources and the underlying reluctance to implement CEC policies.

*but won’t be doing much about it.

Posted 5 years ago #
Morningsider
Member

"Holyrood Park Road/Dalkeith Road
We will consider changing the single yellow lining at the cycle access ramps to double yellow lines, however we are aware of parking demands here and thus may decide that occasional limited access, due to parked cars, at these locations is acceptable."

Really!?

Posted 5 years ago #
chdot
Admin

“Really!?”

Yes.

This REALLY IsCEC.

Actively ignoring CEC policies and (apparently) accepting law breaking as inevitable/necessary/acceptable.

Posted 5 years ago #
Frenchy
Member

@Morningsider - that's absolutely bonkers. Whether it's a single or double yellow line there doesn't make any difference to whether you're allowed to park there, as you're not allowed to block dropped kerbs. Leaving them as single lines makes people think that they can park there and just prevents the council being able to deal with it.

Posted 5 years ago #
neddie
Member

Interesting comment from Southside Community Council (page 29) [my bold]:

Whilst SCC absolutely supports the intent of this project to provide a safe cycling and walking environment, we do not support the principle of physical segregation of bicycles and cars. We feel that roads should be safe shared spaces where all road users respect each other. Whilst we welcome differential road surfaces, road markings, etc, that enhance the safety of cyclists, we feel that the necessary investment to create physically segregated spaces is disproportionate, especially in such times of scarce available resources to be invested in transport and environmental improvement projects. We would like to see investment in the education of road users, i.e., motorists, to show more respect for fellow road users, i.e., cyclists.

Hmmm... Wonder who came up with that one...?

Posted 5 years ago #
jonty
Member

I would like someone to explain the mental gymnastics that allows a few hundred metres of kerbline to cost more than 'education' for literally every driver that might drive near it.

Posted 5 years ago #
Trixie
Member

Honking big sign that no one reads saying 'Give cyclists space'. Done.

Posted 5 years ago #
Frenchy
Member

@Trixie - placed in the cycle lane, naturally.

Posted 5 years ago #
Trixie
Member

Naturally.

Posted 5 years ago #
gibbo
Member

due to a current lack of resources they have temporarily put this scheme on hold

Given 10% of the travel budget is being spent on active travel, does that mean all that money is being spent on other projects?

If so, what the hell are these other projects? (I don't see anything.)

Posted 5 years ago #
crowriver
Member

Oh for goodness' sake. This is the latest in a long line of projects that have been put back/delayed/postponed/kicked into the long grass. What ARE they spending 10% of the transport budget on then?

CEC talks a good game (or maybe, likes to "consult" a lot) but what they actually DO is sporadic at best. I'm being generous there.

Posted 5 years ago #
Frenchy
Member

If so, what the hell are these other projects?

CCWEL and Meadows to George Street. Both Community Links+ projects - the council put in two bids but (reasonably) were not expecting both to be successful.

Posted 5 years ago #

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