CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Eight City Path Plan

(54 posts)
  • Started 7 years ago by I were right about that saddle
  • Latest reply from chdot

12

  1. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    First Minster says "For the sake, not just of our environment, but of our health, we will also take further steps to support walking and cycling - active travel - by doubling the amount spent on it within Transport Scotland’s budget from £40m to £80m a year."

    Succesful campaigners that I have spoken to tell me that the crucial thing to success is to go on the front foot. Don't wait for a plan and criticise it, simply write your own and publicise it.

    In that vein I propose that we (who is that?) quickly and simply propose a new cross-town Dutch quality segregated route for each of Inverness, Aberdeen, Dundee, Perth, Edinburgh, Stirling, Glasgow and Dumfries.

    So far we have concocted;

    Edinburgh
    Midlothian-Gilmerton Rd-Newington-Bridges-Leith St-Broughton St-Botanics-Carrington.

    Aberdeen
    Queen's Road - Albyn Place - Union Street - King Street.

    Would anyone care to suggest routes for the other six towns and cities?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    GREAT idea(s)

    Posted 7 years ago #

  3. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Full disclosure; I don't even know where Carrington is.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  4. gibbo
    Member

    No question that these would have far, far greater impact than what Scot Gov is suggesting.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  5. crowriver
    Member

    "Midlothian-Gilmerton Rd-Newington-Bridges-Leith St-Broughton St-Botanics-Carrington."

    Is this the Hill Climb Challenge route? I suppose once all older people are given a free/subsidised electric bike by the Scottish government, then it would be a doddle.

    Maybe more practical and usable to complete a proper East-West Route beyond Waterloo Place?

    Extend the Roseburn-York Place route, adding a branch along the east of Princes Street.

    Princes Street-Waterloo Place-Regent Road-London Road-Portobello Road

    Resurface the western part of Portobello Prom and you then have decent routes from Portobello to Leith, and Portobello to Murrayfield.

    Optional extra spur route via Willowbrae Road-Milton Road to connect to the already planned Portobello-Musselburgh "missing link" route. Arguably you already have Innocent-Bingham path route parallel at least until the infamous Brunstane railway bridge/car park combo.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  6. Klaxon
    Member

    Regent Rd to Portobello should be a doddle in the scheme of things

    It's almost all the width of 4 or more lanes but marked up as 2 ultra wide lanes plus parking

    Posted 7 years ago #

  7. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    East-West has the canal and the Innocent. North-South has dragons and tank traps.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  8. crowriver
    Member

    "It's almost all the width of 4 or more lanes but marked up as 2 ultra wide lanes plus parking"

    All 30mph speed limit too east of Montrose Terrace. So the safety argument is strong for segregated cycleways. Also has the advantage of bypassing whatever omnishambles they make of Picardy Place junction...

    Posted 7 years ago #

  9. Frenchy
    Member

    @IWRATS - the only Carrington I know of is the one south of Bonnyrigg, on the way to Innerleithen. That makes a Gilmerton-Botanics-Carrington route very suitably ambitious.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  10. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @Frenchy

    Aye, I mind that een.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  11. crowriver
    Member

    "That makes a Gilmerton-Botanics-Carrington route very suitably ambitious."

    Audacious even, worthy of Audax Ecosse.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  12. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Inverness

    Culduthel Road - Bank Street - Rose Street - Longman Road?

    Come on, somebody must know something about Stirling, Perth and Dundee?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  13. chdot
    Admin

    Try and factor in some of this sort of thing -

    "SEStran Strategic Cross Boundary Cycle Development" (new report)

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15007

    Posted 7 years ago #

  14. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Carrington Road, for Western General, Crewe Toll, Quiet Route whatever-it-is up Craigleith Hill Ave, kind of a link to Roseburn/Blackhall paths. Already has been subject of a consultation for seg infra unless I imagined it?

    And I suggested Gilmerton Rd as in my view it's less steep than the Murs de Liberton/Kirk Braes

    Posted 7 years ago #

  15. crowriver
    Member

    "I suggested Gilmerton Rd as in my view it's less steep than the Murs de Liberton/Kirk Braes"

    Indeed so. Still steeper than most drivers would ever countenance on a bike without electric assist. As for Bellevue, Broughton Street, Leith Street...

    Northern part of this route would effectively duplicate the segregated cycleways planned (eventually) for Elm Row/Leith Walk, no?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  16. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    The geography is what it is, if we're talking N-S. The obvious alternatives of Dundas St, Dublin St, Circus Place, Orchard Brae, The Mound are all much worse, if anything. If we're restricting ourselves to train gradients, then we end up with the NEPN (in the absence of Scotland St tunnel being reopened...)

    "Northern part of this route would effectively duplicate the segregated cycleways planned (eventually) for Elm Row/Leith Walk, no?"

    Not really, it just links to it. I thought we virtually all thought joining the current and future planned fragments was the way to go?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  17. Lezzles
    Member

    In Midlothian when a house builder gets planning permission its often on condition that they build a new school/community centre. How about they also require them to build a segregated cycle path from said school/community centre.

    Out our way they are talking about building a new high school in the Bush Estate. To connect it to the feeder village/towns with a cycle path would have kids on the path to sustainable travel as adults

    Posted 7 years ago #

  18. PS
    Member

    As for Bellevue, Broughton Street, Leith Street...

    The gradient is what makes a decent (ie two bikes wide either way) segregated cycleway important here. Speed differential between a cyclist and motor vehicles is high when you're going up hill, even with a 20mph limit.

    Most of that section is plenty wide (Rodney Street, Mansfield Place) and Broughton Street is effectively four lanes wide in rush hour when parking is "forbidden". You'd need to get shopkeepers onside with the idea that removing the parking on the street would not adversely impact their trade, but I reckon that's doable given the improved street environment you would produce to encourage footfall and that there are plenty of sides streets punters could park on.

    The fact it would link to the NEPN and the proposed E-W route makes the case even stronger.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  19. crowriver
    Member

    "I thought we virtually all thought joining the current and future planned fragments was the way to go?"

    Sure, but Elm Row will (eventually) link to York Place. McDonald Road is currently the link to NEPN from Leith Walk, but if Powderhall Path is built then a completely off-road connection would exist. Granted that doesn't solve issue of connecting Stockbridge/Botanics to the city centre but that could be done another way, e.g.. via Comely Bank, Queensferry Road to connect to East West route in the West End.

    Broughton Street is but a very short hop via quiet back streets to the top of Leith Walk, where segregated cycleways are already planned, even if we'll have to wait another five years to get them (thanks to the St James developers and trams). So I don't really see a strong case for a segregated cycleway on that particular stretch. Leith Street should really have segregated cycleways to link with Leith Walk, however the powers that be seem set against this happening. North Bridge should have segregated cycleways too, as should Lothian Road. Things get a bit trickier from South Bridge towards Newington, but surely not beyond the wit of road designers.

    In any case apart from Leith Walk and (potentially) Lothian Road this is all conjecture. The council's plans are all set out in the ATAP document and they seem to be sticking to them for the time being. Any new funding will presumably be spent expediting these routes.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  20. AKen
    Member

    The key point for Dundee is whether you want to go east-west (along the Tay) or south-north (from the Tay up into the hills). One suggestion:

    Ninewells Hospital - Blackness Road - Dundee University - the City Centre (maybe via South Ward Road and Panmure Street) - Cowgate - Broughty Ferry Road - West Ferry - Broughty Ferry - Barnhill - Monifieth.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  21. Frenchy
    Member

    NCN 1 and 77 go along the Tay already. I don't know if they're any good, but there doesn't appear to be anything going north-south.

    Based entirely off of two minutes looking at a map - perhaps Balgowan to the train station/Tay Bridge. A safe, easy crossing of the A90 would be essential.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  22. AKen
    Member

    Trondheim-style bike elevator to get up the Hilltown would be good. Should use up about £10M.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  23. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    East-West route needs to extend out along A8 the whole way to Corstorphine and the Gyle. Loads of room and SJR and many people in Corstorphine are crying out for big changes along this road.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  24. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    As alluded to:

    Craigleith to West end via Queensferry Road is crying out for a segregated cycle way. Most of the road is just a chevroned central reservation that is valuable space that could be much better used.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  25. chdot
    Admin

    "that is valuable space that could be much better used"

    And so many other places.

    Some are complicated by having pedestrian "refuges". If it's a good place to cross the road, should probably have proper crossings.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  26. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    @Frenchy

    NCN 1 east in Dundee is rubbish. Unbelievably, you have to get buzzed in by security through a metal gate into the docks, and apparently you may have to show photo ID (thankfully I didn't). A less raw deal than unaccredited pedestrians though - they get told to PO.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  27. Frenchy
    Member

    That does sound rubbish, but it might still be better than what's available north-south.

    In Inverness, the obvious (but not necessarily best, obviously) option is down the east bank of the Ness, from somewhere in the south to the Kessock bridge.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  28. chdot
    Admin

    I hope there will be suggestions for 'easy' - might need to remove parking - and more ambitious, perhaps new bridges.

    The new infrastructure won't all get done in year one (or ten probably), but SG needs to be presented with a report that shows ambition and demonstrates the scale of investment required.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  29. chdot
    Admin

    It's also important that the new infrastructure is designed/intended to attract new people to using bikes for transport.

    Otherwise it's tinkering to improve things for people like 'us'.

    Won't be cheap, but might make Scotland's cities more like the best in Europe and North America.

    Will save NHS money 10 years down the line, maybe sooner.

    Will reduce the pressure for 'more roads' (not that many cities have room for them) and ought to save money on road maintenance, with fewer motor vehicles.

    Make it easier to meet climate change targets etc. etc.

    The SG seems to be 'getting it', let's hope they really mean it and understand it might be tough - unless of course more people realise it's what they expect 21st C governments to do...

    SG might have to actually work more closely with cities too.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  30. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Has anyone punted this thread on to folk in the other cities? Family and friends style.

    Posted 7 years ago #

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