Guys, have you still not read about Phase 3 and 4? These will involve works to junctions various.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Tram markings plan to help cyclists in Edinburgh
(170 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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Posted 7 years ago #
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@chdot - Dearie me, by Spokes standards that's downright impolite!
Posted 7 years ago # -
junctions various
I think I know someone who caught that once. An ointment cleared it right up though.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Phase 2 will include improvements to Advanced Stop Lines at six city centre locations and improvements at Haymarket Station, Lothian Road and South Charlotte Street.
Phase 3 will include the area where cyclists will cross from Princes Street to South St Andrew Street and Phase 4 will make changes to the road layout at the foot of Lothian Road. Public realm will also be reviewed in this area.
"
We all want the more permanent engineering solutions in phases 3 & 4.
Sadly, they take time to implement and we are impatient for change to prevent another tragedy.
I can't see how spending £30k on phase 1 on quick fixes to make an impact NOW is a waste of money/effort. Would you rather they did nothing until phases 3&4?
You may not like it but the paint at Haymarket has reduced (but not elimated) bike crashes at that location. Why not try something similar while we await the diggers?
Appreciate I'm taking a contrary position to many on here but I think we should recognise that since June CEC (& the new political administration) are responding to situation. Yes we want it quicker but they aren't sitting on their hands or ignoring it - something than could be said in previous years.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Posted 7 years ago #
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“Dearie me, by Spokes standards that's downright impolite!”
Must have been hacked(?)
Posted 7 years ago # -
“I think we should recognise that since June CEC (& the new political administration) are responding to situation”
I think that is true.
“
2. Background
2.2 A working group has since been set up and has met to discuss possible options and develop short term interventions. As part of this, the working group also considered interventions that were being developed by a consultant, engaged previously by the Council, to look at areas of potential conflict between cyclists and tramlines throughout the city centre. SPOKES and Sustrans had previously been consulted during the development of these interventions.
2.3 It is now proposed to implement some of these interventions alongside those that have been identified since June.
“
Curious, about time too etc. etc.
VERY sadly, however much the new Administration has made a difference, this was a major factor -
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2.1 Following the fatal collision involving Zhi Min Soh at Shandwick Place on 31 May 2017 the Council undertook to carry out a road safety assessment of the area, considering all users and aspects of the junction and its approaches.
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Posted 7 years ago # -
Not sure how to receive this - I seem to remember the Chipwrapper having a fairly dismissive tone to its articles any previous time the risk and injury toll to cyclists was raised.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@Murun - Is that the piece which says that cyclists are used to tram tracks in other cities? As it happens, tram tracks are better designed in other cities.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@Rosie no, remarkable for EEN/Scotsman by lack of victim blaming
Posted 7 years ago # -
One slight typo cyclists have been coming croppers but otherwise a piece of grown up journalism.
Who writes the leader column? No victim blaming nor council bashing. Drivers to give cyclist space... Wonder however what the leader writer will think about phase 3 and 4 when proposals are more than paint?
Posted 7 years ago # -
“Who writes the leader column?”
Probably one of these people -
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/contact-us
Maybe Ian Swanson who did the 2 page spread on P Pl.
If you approve, send an email or mention on Twitter.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Posted 7 years ago #
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@Murun - thanks. Have read. Very positive.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Study of Toronto highlighted that majority of cyclist falls linked to their original course to cross track disrupted by other road users forcing a late change. This includes tailgating & this would seem to fit with the fatal crash sequence (hassled rider makes error crossing track to turn right and following driver (too close?) runs over her & bike)
Posted 7 years ago # -
The markings at St David St appear to direct cyclists towards the gutter. Also the markings don't line up with positioning to the right of the ASL for turning right. Hmmm.
Posted 7 years ago # -
The markings at St David Street do not relate to safe & direct use of the junction with the flow of other traffic on the carriageway AND could deliver a cyclist turning as they cross the rails, plus, in the current state of road collapse and track slab cracking would appear to put cyclists directly in line with a point where the road has collapsed.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/34734975184/in/datetaken/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/35445652721/in/datetaken/
Also many places where road has sunk delivering a cycle felling ridge - especially at The Mound where cyclists are going to ride past buses stopped at bus stops or take the 'natural' line after passing Portrait Gallery
examples
https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/34734948134/in/datetaken/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/35264703685/in/datetaken/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/35131638691/in/datetaken/
(this is set of valve covers at foot of Mound - have brought down cyclists no fix in 12 months? ruler = 15mm deep dangerous ridge for cyclists = 6mm! New road flatness limit 3mm!)https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/34767166793/in/datetaken/
(kerb line has dropped 6-8 inches road plate has been in place for over 6 months right in line with where people are cycling, manhole frame & cover clattering under 2x 9T axles per bus)https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/36211824983/in/datetaken/
(one of many places where foundation slab movement has delivered twin cracks in upper slab and concrete lumps are falling out leaving these chunks rocking (this has been filmed) and held by reinforcing bars passing through them. Some have been patched up with tarmac but where open the water gets in under the surfaces and lubricates the sand (alluvial) and fractured shale supporting ground and creates further subsidence).Do keep taking photos!
Posted 7 years ago # -
Spokes official article
The Council rightly recognises that many crashes occur because traffic pressures force the cyclist into the tramlines at a poor angle. Merely advising cyclists to use the correct angle would for many people just be telling them to suck eggs.
Crashes can occur when a cyclist needs to cross the lines but because of traffic pressures cannot position themselves well for crossing. Another common scenario is someone cycling parallel to the tracks but then forced sideways into the lines by a vehicle moving out.
We therefore particularly welcome the phase 1 ‘Give Cyclists Space’ signs and publicity aimed at drivers, many of whom are unfamiliar with the problems that cyclists face on the roads.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I was going to write a reasoned critique of why I found this initiative so saddening, but @Stickman's diagram indicating that we will be advised to turn right on Princes Street from the left hand lane across a decomposing slab into the gutter has done the job for me.
Posted 7 years ago # -
“
We therefore particularly welcome the phase 1 ‘Give Cyclists Space’ signs and publicity aimed at drivers, many of whom are unfamiliar with the problems that cyclists face on the roads.
“
This the sort of thing that some people (including me over things like welcoming the opening of the QBiC) think that Spokes should be more careful about.
‘Cycle campaigners’ have a certain reputation for complaining about things (often with justification). Spokes likes to thank/praise CEC when it has made some incremental improvement.
Perhaps Spokes should assess whether saying “We therefore particularly welcome” before something is implemented is wise.
‘We therefore cautiously welcome ...’
Posted 7 years ago # -
We therefore particularly welcome the phase 1 ‘Give Cyclists Space’ signs and publicity aimed at drivers, many of whom are unfamiliar with the problems that cyclists face on the roads.
I would think that was written by someone who looks for, reads and obeys signs. There appears in many of Spokes' communications to be an underlying assumption of reasonableness and shared purpose in motorists, officials and politicians that I don't always find itself to be reasonable.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I would think that was written by someone who looks for, reads and obeys signs.
I've been trying to think how often I manage to read road signs when driving and I've concluded "not very often".
There's usually enough things to concentrate on when driving in an urban setting (esp at cluttered junctions like the bottom of Lothian Road) without having to read even short sentences or commands on a sign that is likely to be in a peripheral position.
If it's a simple symbol, fine, I can take it in, but these signs are relatively complex (and a design that is new to me, so won't benefit from understanding learned from driving test days) and I'd question whether most drivers will absorb the message.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@PS
I drove across town early on Saturday morning and totally missed the start of the 20mph zone. I say that as someone willing to respect it.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"totally missed the start of the 20mph zone"
But is that not a case of too little signage rather than too much or too complex?
Posted 7 years ago # -
But is that not a case of too little signage rather than too much or too complex?
Not necessarily. Too much signage (in which I would include all the instructions painted on the road, which become difficult to discern in heavy traffic or wet nights) makes it more likely that the driver will miss individual signs.
Better to declutter and sign by exception (ie, in that instance, make the default for urban streets 20mph, so the repeater sings are only required on 30 and 40mph roads).
Posted 7 years ago # -
@IWRATS: if the drawing wasn't clear enough, here's the turn into Waverly Bridge:
https://mobile.twitter.com/mattbecker82/status/914825561826045953
That is horrible.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Sorry, you're not authorized to view these Tweets.
I'll take your word that it's horrible.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Here's the picture from that tweet:
Posted 7 years ago # -
That doesn't make any sense at all. You'd be run flat if you tried to follow that at half five on a winter Friday.
Posted 7 years ago #
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