Maybe some kind of decimation of Friday evening commuting cyclists is the plan behind the plan.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Tram markings plan to help cyclists in Edinburgh
(170 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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A failure of imagination on your parts. Clearly the correct way to negotiate this is to cycle forwards from the right hand lane until you intersect the dashed line. stop. dismount. rotate your bicycle so that it is aligned parallel with the dashed lines. remount and move off at your leisure.
otherwise it seems like some kind of city centre trials course? strava will automatically add time penalties for 'dabbing;
Posted 7 years ago # -
what about a trapdoor in the bike box after the ASL that opens when the lights turn amber. should clear all the cyclist out of the way nicely just before the cars have to drive off.
Posted 7 years ago # -
How would you tackle the turn at a safe angle before they got out the paint?
I can't see how it can currently be done from the right hand lane.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I give it a week before someone doing some minimal research into other countries' methods picks Australia rather than northern continental Europe and starts slapping hook turn signs all over the place.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I've definitely done that turn from the right hand lane.
Hopefully the paint will help drivers understand why cyclists are slowly and carefully making strange maneuvers.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I can't see how it can currently be done from the right hand lane.
Slowly.
I've done it a few times, almost always on the mtb with 2.5" tyres at 0600 and it's a very gingerly taken manoeuvre, no way I'd try it at half five on a Friday!
Posted 7 years ago # -
Hopefully the paint will help drivers understand why cyclists are slowly and carefully making strange maneuvers.
Drivers barely observe the yellow box junctions, never mind anything else
Posted 7 years ago # -
Which is not that surprising as there's now an absurd one on the eastbound carriageway which lasts for about 20m, only stopping for the pedestrian crossing. I assume it's something to do with the Leith Street closure.
The drawing shows to me that the safest option all-round by this point would probably be to close the tram-tracks lane to all other traffic and combine the forward and right traffic into one lane.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Sorry, you're not authorized to view these Tweets."
I seem to get that message whenever I follow a link to Twitter. Refreshing the page clears it.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I went to the station this morning. The lights were against me at the block before Waverley Bridge so I was able to cross both tram rails and cycle the next block to the right of both the rails - of course that meant I wasn't taking the lane and there was a risk being passed to the left..... clearly less than ideal. I definitely don't like the look of and can't imagine crossing as per the markings in the overhead shot when the road is busy.
In general I try and ride the tram sections as confidentally as I can but always at reduced speed with clear exaggerated crossings of the rails being made (i.e. "Driver I am going slowly not just because I am slow but because I am negotiating road features"...).
Not good for the nerves.
Oh and I've only had to negotiate in daylight....
Posted 7 years ago # -
I've seen one or two statements that "the Haymarket lanes unexpectedly helped so these can too." I've thought about it, and I don't think they're comparable for a couple of reasons:
1) The Haymarket lane involved the removal of a traffic lane. I appreciate this isn't necessarily always reflected in driver behaviour, but it creates a bottleneck which keeps drivers alerts, reduces speeds and helps to provide the space that cyclists need. No similar change is happening elsewhere (as far as I know.)
2) It also provides a complete and very visible path to cyclists between two 'normal' sections of road, genuinely helping them to understand how to cross and motorists to anticipate their behaviour and give space. As we've seen, this new paint is less clear and does neither of these things anyway. If anything, it is likely to confuse cyclists further and encourage unpredictable lane-straddling cycling which might baffle even the most attentive and considerate drivers.
Unless further steps are taken to make the full path that cyclists ought to take explicitly clear to all road users, and remove traffic lanes where necessary to accommodate this, I don't see how casualty numbers are going to fall in the same way.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Seems to be a lot of constructive suggestions and other locations that might benefit from simple short-term treatment.
Anybody able to pull them together to feed back to council?
They say they will be monitoring closely so contact Road Safety Team.Criticism of Phase 1 probably not worthwhile. Changing the cycle icon to letters "CYCLE" at Shandwick Place is Phase 2 as it needs Gov approval (non-standard lettering) but is being urgently addressed so shouldn't have to wait for March.
Re quoting 1.5metres - Cycling UK got a lot of flack for quoting this on their "Close pass" mat. Police Scotland (with Cycling Scotland) decided not to quote a distance as it gives solicitors wiggle room and more significantly they are educating drivers that a considerate passing distance depends on the location and situation. I'd want more than 1.5m with a big lorry passing me at speed. There was also some discussion about quoting a distance (12m) or a number of bus lengths to stay behind, but same argument applies.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Looks like the paint went down last night.
Posted 7 years ago # -
The red lanes were there already yesterday. I turned right from Princes Street to Waverley Bridge. I didn't take the suggested line, as it was too tight a turn for me. Taxi driver behind left me plenty of time and space though.
EDIT: Looking at at the photos, I think more red lanes have been added since I was there.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I crossed the tram tracks at the point Ms Soh was crushed on Monday. There was an red stripe on the carriageway. I did not follow it and I doubt I ever will as it did not correspond with my assessment of the safest line.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Questions: who assessed these lines as the best angle to take? Did they ride these lines at various speeds and in various weather conditions, especially with traffic around?
Many are going to do the same as IWRATS and we'll hear the usual complaints that cyclists ignore the infrastructure provided.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Noticed a red stripe across the tracks at York Place if you were coming from the vicinity of the bus station / Elder Street. Not sure if anyone is ever going to get a chance to use that particular stripe.
Posted 7 years ago # -
So bafflingly there are now three parallel red stripes across the road where Ms Soh was crushed, about five metres from each other.
I can't imagine how a novice cyclist is supposed to respond - which of the three frankly impossible lines should they choose to attempt to follow?
Posted 7 years ago # -
https://mobile.twitter.com/edinburgh_cc/status/918812576607232000
Nice wee animation showing how to cross the lines. No traffic in the animation, but otherwise very realistic.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Stickman - you honestly had me going there! I genuinely laughed out loud.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@Stickman
Well. Oh. Right.
So we are to make ninety degree right turns across following traffic from the gutter with only our left hands on the bars? I wish to God I paid road tax.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Posted 7 years ago #
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Posted 7 years ago #
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Shandwick Place, courtesy of jules878 on Twitter:
Posted 7 years ago # -
If you're in secondary and you make that turn you'll be flattened from behind.
If you're in primary you'll be so close to the rail when you start your turn that you'll hit it at an acute angle.
There is no safe way of cycling there in the presence of motor vehicles.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I suspect these efforts have really been designed by lawyers, rather than engineers - given their purpose is to fend off claims rather than improve the lot of cyclists. They make far more sense if you think about them like that.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Just jaw-droppingly awful.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I was giving the council the benefit of the doubt as they couldn't make quick physical changes so a stop-gap may have worked in the meantime. However having seen these photos I think they are a dangerous mess.
Also, the council focus on cyclist behaviour as the first aspect of the advertising rather than drivers (apparently coming next week) is a major mistake. It's just going to end up with the usual "why aren't you using the cycle lanes" abuse.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Reading the page above I don't suspect next week will be any better:
If you see a cyclist indicating to turn across the tracks, you should stay at least 12 metres behind them - this is the length of 2 ½ cars or a bus
So ok the tail gate if the cyclist isn't indicating or you are distracted.Posted 7 years ago #
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