Aaaaaaaaaaaaargh. You. Cannot. Prioritise. Everything.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Tram markings plan to help cyclists in Edinburgh
(170 posts)-
Posted 6 years ago #
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Balance...
<ducks>
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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has it been a year?
agree that some sort of observation would be useful. I know she's not the only cyclist in the city to die, but it was in a very visible location.Posted 6 years ago # -
Spurred on by another cyclist being injured at the Garve Level Crossing today, I have tried again to get something done about it.
Tweet to Humza (likes, retweets, engagements welcome)
When some of us met with Humza after Zhi Min Soh's death, I raised it with him and have followed it up in my unanswered emails from earlier this year.
I fear it is another tragedy in the making...
Posted 6 years ago # -
Regarding an enquiry into Zhi Min Soh's death, I have had a reply from the Procurator Fiscal's office:
"Dear [ih]
Thank you for your email.
This case is still under consideration by COPFS. [Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service]
I can confirm that, to date, no FAI [Fatal Accident Inquiry] has been held.
I am sorry but I am not able to provide you with any further information at this time.
Yours Faithfully
[...]
Senior Procurator Fiscal Depute (Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday (am), Thursday (am))
Scottish Fatalities Investigation Unit
Procurator Fiscal’s Office"
I am alarmed and disappointed that this fatality, which must be unique in Scotland in recent decades, does not appear to be receiving serious investigation.
I don't know the workings of the investigatory bodies, but it seems to me that the causes of Zhi Min Soh's tragic death are just being ignored. There must be ample evidence available (which is probably getting harder to retrieve as time passes) and I cannot understand why no inquiry is planned.
How can lessons be learnt, and effective remedial action be taken when no serious attempt is being made to determine the causes?
Posted 6 years ago # -
@ih
Well done and thank you. This response is astonishing. I guess many of the witnesses were foreign tourists who will become increasingly hard to track down as time passes.
This is utterly grim. Time for another vigil perhaps, get the press involved?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Well, much more than 6 months has elapsed since the incident so the only motoring offence charges they can still lay against the driver are Dangerous Driving or Causing Death by similar. I doubt they will somehow.
An FAI probably cannot be scheduled until a definitive charging decision is made? Either way, it is taking far too long.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Die in time.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Die-in time?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Dye inn thyme.
Shall we reactivate Protection Not Paint?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Aye.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I'm in
Posted 6 years ago # -
Zhi Min Soh - (disappointing) update from Procurator Fiscal's office.
I emailed the Fiscal's office for clarification on whether a Fatal Accident Inquiry was (a) waiting for a decision within the Fiscal's office, or, (b) waiting for information or process from some other agency before the Fiscal could make the decision to hold an inquiry or not.
"
Dear [Fiscal's Office]Thank you very much for your reply; I appreciate your taking the time.
Could I please ask you to clarify your statement that, "This case is still under consideration by COPFS."
Is the decision whether or not to hold an FAI in this case
a) currently being considered by the COPFS, inasmuch as, the COPFS has all the available information and the decision is entirely one for the COPFS to make;
b) dependent on, another Agency supplying the COPFS with some additional information, or on other Agencies completing further processes before the COPFS can be in a position to make a decision?
If the decision is dependent on (b), could you please indicate which Agency you wish to supply the information or which processes need to be completed first?
Yours sincerely,
[ih]
The disappointing reply I received after 3 weeks is:
"
Dear [ih]Thank you for your email. I apologise but because this case is ongoing I am not in a position to answer the questions you have asked or provide any further information.
Yours Faithfully
[Fiscal's Office]
Does anyone know which Scottish minister has responsibility for Fatal Accident Inquiries?
Posted 6 years ago # -
I recently asked an MSP about a possible FAI, and was told that the Scottish Fatalities Investigation Unit had announced last summer that they were to hold an investigation. Normally this would take 3-4 months. However, the SFIU do not routinely publish their findings, but do inform the family affected and prosecutors (if necessary). The MSP suspected that no FAI would be taking place, as this would probably have been announced already. They are going to ask the SFIU what happened.
Posted 6 years ago # -
RSOs are out for outside Haymarket Station & for Cultins Rd (nr. Edinburgh Park station)
Posted 6 years ago # -
Interesting, they are going to take the link to South Gyle Crescent around the back of the electricity yard. Unfortunately the plan completely ignores the fact that 50% of the cyclists going under the railway don't turn right to SGC, but go left down Lochside Ct to Edinburgh Park.
30 minutes observation of what happens on an average day would have vastly improved this plan...
Sigh.
On the plus side, loving the misspelling on the CEC site..."cultins_road_and_new_tram_kink"
Posted 6 years ago # -
Actually, I'm not even sure that is part of the work, I think they have just used a rubbish map showing the old route of Cultins Road. Which is fenced off. So even less relationship with reality.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Just received this:
"Good Afternoon,
Further to previous updates on our project to improve conditions for people cycling along the Tram route, we would like to notify you that the Traffic Order proposals are now available online (link below) for the proposed changes to traffic restrictions on Grosvenor Street.
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/download/2799/tro1848_-_grosvenor_street_-_one-way
As reported in our consultation report of 22 May 2018 the Council agreed to undertake additional traffic modelling to assess the potential for restricting traffic entering Grosvenor Street northbound from West Maitland Street. The Council considers that banning entry would improve safety for cyclists and pedestrians at this junction and this design received overall support in the public consultation. The traffic modelling work is now complete and has shown the banning of entry would not have a significant impact on the traffic through the surrounding junctions. It also has the benefit of reducing rat running and traffic volumes through Grosvenor Street and Landsdowne Crescent.
To achieve this, the necessary legal procedures are required to make changes to the Traffic Regulation Order for restricting traffic entering Grosvenor Street northbound from West Maitland Street. The Order is now live and available for review and comment 11th March 2019.
Background information on the project, previous consultations and designs are available on the Councils website: https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/tram-route-cycle-safety-improvements/. Construction of the wider package of cycle safety improvements is planned to commence Summer 2019.
Thank you for your time and interest in the project.
Best regards
Paul"
Posted 5 years ago # -
The Council considers that banning entry would improve safety for cyclists and pedestrians at this junction and this design received overall support in the public consultation. The traffic modelling work is now complete and has shown the banning of entry would not have a significant impact on the traffic through the surrounding junctions. It also has the benefit of reducing rat running and traffic volumes through Grosvenor Street and Landsdowne Crescent.
This is a great win. As there was some doubt as to whether they would prevent entry to Grosvenor St.
Posted 5 years ago # -
It should certainly help pedestrians: the pedestrian lights at the south end of Grosvenor Street are on a very lengthy cycle (as are most of the others along that Haymarket-Shandwick Place corridor). With traffic potentially coming at you from any one of three different directions (four if you include Morrison Street - I'm pretty sure it's actually illegal but I've seen it done) it's not easy to cross with confidence against the red man. With only bikes and southbound motor vehicles to worry about it should be that bit less stressful making one's way on foot along what is, after all, a prime route through the city.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Was gonna say - one way it could be a bit better is if they'd done a kerb-separated contraflow bike lane sort of thing, allowing the green man to be on almost all the time with a separate crossing of some description for bikes entering the road. As it is, you'll end up with similar uncertainty as the red man will still be on most of the time (but less consequence). Same problem with the cycles-only left turn from the top of Leith Street.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Was gonna say - one way it could be a bit better is if they'd done a kerb-separated contraflow bike lane sort of thing,
Interestingly*, the blue signs they've shown are those for when there's a mandatory contraflow cycle lane. The signs also seem to be back to front.
*For some definition of interesting...
Posted 5 years ago # -
In reality I think that sign is used for all cycling contraflow one-way schemes regardless of whether or not there is a contraflow lane of any sort.
See https://goo.gl/maps/uTW1a3rYkTx
I agree it's bizarre that it's the wrong way around though!
Posted 5 years ago # -
My concern is with the "no left turn" sign, which means cyclists can only enter the one way by cycling straight into or turning right into Grosvenor Street. Unfortunately, due to the contraflow, there is no legal way of making this manoeuvre.
So, the intent must have been that cyclists could turn left into Grosvenor Street, either coming from Dalry Road, or Clifton Terrace, despite passing the "no left turn" sign.
As it stands, I don't think it will be legal for cyclists to use Grosvenor Road without walking across the central island!
Does no one proof read these plans prior to publishing? Omitting "except cycles" on the "no left turn" could be overlooked, but the mirrored cycle contraflow sign should have been obvious...
Robert
Posted 5 years ago # -
@Roibeard: My concern is with the "no left turn" sign, which means cyclists can only enter the one way by cycling straight into or turning right into Grosvenor Street.
It does look as if someone has forgotten to add the "Except cycles" sign underneath.
Is there a mechanism for pointing out issues like this with TROs?
Posted 5 years ago # -
I am extremely not a lawyer, but I think the only bit which actually has legal force is the proposed Order which simply says that a bit of Grosvenor Street is going one-way - everything else is just an implementation detail and can be tweaked afterwards. Maybe? It is probably worth writing to note support for the Order but a small technical concern with the plans.
I'm not quite sure why the pavement changes don't require an RSO when things like closing off a driveway seem to (not that I'm objecting!) Maybe they do?
EDIT: having said that the Order seems to say it will be one way for 20m 'or thereby' - is that just giving them license to make the one way entry section as long as they like?
Posted 5 years ago # -
Is there a mechanism for pointing out issues like this with TROs?
I can PM you contact details for the officers dealing with this, if you want to ask them about it?
Posted 5 years ago # -
The No Left Turn sign is positioned on Clifton Terrace, so I would presume applies only to vehicles on that road, not vehicles coming from Dalry Road. The cycle lane from Dalry Road is only a recommended path, not a mandatory route, so a cyclist - or any other road user - is not required to observe the NLT sign. The No Entry signs neatly bar all non-cyclists from any other direction.
The awkwardness is that cyclists coming from Haymarket should be able to ignore the NLT sign.
Posted 5 years ago # -
@Arellcat - from the plans, cyclists from Dalry Road appeared to pass the "no left turn" sign just as those from Clifton Terrace, because the sign was placed quite far along Clifton Terrace - the complex junction design being really a right turn on to Clifton Terrace, then left into Grosvenor Street, rather than straight on from Dalry Road into Grosvenor Street.
Robert
Posted 5 years ago #
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