Twitter thread trying to get some traction on making the park less car dominated.
Please engage / retweet etc.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Holyrood Park: paths, crossings and closures
(219 posts)-
Posted 6 years ago #
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Having picked a VERY windy day for my first cycle of the year up Queen's Drive, I'm once again in disbelief more of the park isn't closed to cars. The top road really ought to be shut on Sundays at the very minimum.
My last email to Historic Scotland two years ago may have been a bit too scathing and did not get a reply. I think I'll try again, but just suggest the closures extend to Saturdays or at the least include the top road. I remember seeing someone getting a detailed reply about pedestrianising the park and getting a reply from someone (who did not understand induced demand), but I don't seem to be able to find it for reference.
aha, found the thread http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13839&page=2#post-300978
(Had some deep satisfaction, alongside some anger, seeing someone driving down the closed Duddingston Low Road knowing they wouldn't be able to get out at the other end. )
Posted 5 years ago # -
Reply to the last email:
As an HES Member you are probably aware that Holyrood Park is a protected scheduled monument under the terms of the Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Areas Act (1979) and one of 336 nationally important Properties in Care across Scotland. It is owned by Scottish Ministers, managed by Historic Environment Scotland (HES) on their behalf, and regulated by The Holyrood Park Regulations 1971 (as amended). However, unlike most scheduled monuments the park also fulfils numerous other functions largely as a result of its role as a public park and because of its urban setting. The roads within the Park are classed as private and do not form part of the City-managed road network and were not designed for that purpose. Access is permitted to these roads subject to a number of conditions laid down in The Parks Regulations Act. Road traffic enforcement in Holyrood Park is the responsibility of Police Scotland who apply their traffic enforcement policy across the whole city. With regard to your comment on the introduction of the 20mph limit in Holyrood Park I can advise you that Police Scotland, who have overall responsibility for enforcement of all the Park Regulations, exercise regular vehicle speed checks, commercial vehicle checks and close-pass (to bicycles) stops within the Park. These have resulted in a number of prosecutions. This is of course in proportion to available policing resources across the city. You may be interested to know that the level of accidents within the park boundaries is lower than the rate that would be expected on roads with a similar traffic level.
The distinction between the Holyrood Park road network and the wider city network is not something that is widely recognised and the Park roads are assumed by most people to be part of that city-managed network. Some people, like yourself, feel the park is too heavily used by traffic. As the city has developed around the Park there has been a significant increase in the volume of road traffic in and around the Park with no additional capacity to accommodate our road closures within the neighbouring road network. HES Holyrood Park managers readily accept that there is challenge to meet regarding that situation. However, we also acknowledge our situation as a perceived part of a city-wide road system and cannot solve the issue of traffic volume by simply preventing all motor vehicle access to the Park. While there is good evidence, as you indicate in your email, of ‘traffic evaporation’ by restricting or redirecting road traffic, we have a responsibility to adjacent residential neighbourhoods which are already congested and experience significant increases in traffic volume during Park road closures. Closing the park roads during peak traffic time significantly impacts on congestion and increases slow-moving/stop-start traffic emissions in neighbouring areas such as Meadowbank, Abbeyhill, Duddingston, Craigmillar and Prestonfield. More extensive road closures would require a more integrated approach involving collaboration with City of Edinburgh Council (CEC) and other interested parties, not least local resident and community groups. CEC’s 'Connecting our City, Transforming our Places' plans may well be a catalyst that leads to some focused consideration of this very complex issue.
The Park management team fully recognises that a key part of our park management strategy is more effective cross-agency collaboration and HES, along with colleagues from CEC, are at the early stages of designing an improved pedestrian and cycle path network through the Park. These improvements aim to improve cycle access, change priorities and have the additional benefit of slowing vehicle speeds further. Maintaining the delicate balance of competing interests of the ever-increasing size and numbers of user groups in the Park is already a challenge, including balancing the various categories of road users and also the multiple user-groups on the fragile hill-land areas. Changes in management policy in the park can easily increase the strain on those user-group relationships and also increase the impacts on the monument itself.
As a guardian of the historic environment HES has an obligation to both protect and provide reasonable access to all its Properties in Care. While we have on many occasions considered adjusting our road closure regime, there is no easy solution to how we provide physical access for less able people, not only those with formally recognised disabilities, without facilitating vehicle access to some areas of the park particularly to the higher areas. The High Road is left open on Sundays to facilitate access for those people to enjoy the views and is regarded by some of our users as essential for that purpose; providing parking bays at a low level only would decrease the current level of access for those people - bearing in mind that arthritis, though often invisible, is the most common mobility-restricting condition.
Thank you again for your email and the concerns you have raised. I appreciate that we have not been able to provide the answer you want in the immediate term but I hope you appreciate that this is a unique set of circumstances which we are actively considering. I will share your comments with the wider Park Management and Park Strategy team, your views and suggestions are valuable in helping us consider the park’s management strategy. Historic Environment Scotland is committed to maintaining access to Holyrood Park as a safe and enjoyable resource for all and always welcomes comment from our varied users and members. I hope that you will still manage to enjoy the Park despite your current concerns and also the wider benefits that HES membership provides.
END
I don't find disabled access argument for the top road convincing if the traffic involved with it dissuades other (potentially more) people from using the park. I know it puts me off cycling it more often. Why not extend the road up to the peaks if disabled access is the only concern. (as well as comparing unannounced closures effects on nearby traffic to permanent closures)
Posted 5 years ago # -
They've been claiming to be at "early stages of planning improved cycle paths" for at least 5 years by my reckoning. Would like to see the work done so far.
Posted 5 years ago # -
While there is good evidence, as you indicate in your email, of ‘traffic evaporation’ by restricting or redirecting road traffic, we have a responsibility to adjacent residential neighbourhoods which are already congested and experience significant increases in traffic volume during Park road closures.
So while there is "good evidence", they don't actually believe it, or want to listen to it?
Posted 5 years ago # -
That is a very disappointing and frustrating response from HES.
We are facing a climate emergency.
Closing the park roads to through-traffic is an easy way to significantly reduce private motor traffic in the city - perfectly inline with the aspirations of the city centre transformation and carbon-reduction goals.
And yet the unelected bodies at HES will not even contemplate it. I expect that CEC and the Scottish Govt "won't be able" to do much either, and each of the bodies will continue to pass the buck to each other ad-infinitum.
I don't find disabled access argument for the top road convincing if the traffic involved with it dissuades other (potentially more) people from using the park.
Yes agreed, and how many non-car-owning disabled and elderly are intimidated from using the park by the traffic & lack of road crossings?
this very complex issue
That is simply patronising nonsense from HES. It's simple, cheap and easy to close the roads to through traffic. Experience from around the world shows that traffic will evaporate and re-balance itself after some time.
Posted 5 years ago # -
At the very least they should be addressing the option of automated enforcement of the 20mph limits. The low road, from Duddingston Village up to the roundabouts beside Pollock I find one of the nastiest roads in Edinburgh right now.
Posted 5 years ago # -
At the very least they should be addressing the option of automated enforcement of the 20mph limits.
+1. I can't remember the last time I saw people following the speed limit on the Queen's Drive section. I do 25-30 mph there twice a day and am always keeping up with traffic, and often I get overtaken.
Posted 5 years ago # -
In case we ever needed any more proof that Historic Enviroment Scotland actually care more about cars than people or history:
Posted 5 years ago # -
Oh come on, they’re just taking the piss with that one!
Posted 5 years ago # -
Avoided most of the park yesterday. On foot so posted some observations on Twitter.
Car driving is down massively - despite being free to exercise your car on the open road. Hill road was closed but lower roads through to Duddingston open. Not sure why as driving times through city centre have never been faster!
Posted 4 years ago # -
That car must have been hammering it given the fact it’s not visible in the first pic & nobody else has moved very far by pic 2
Posted 4 years ago # -
@stiltskin, yes, or in parallel universe the second picture is the earlier one? And the cyclist coming down the hill is hammering it?
Posted 4 years ago # -
Will sort sequence. One has shot of two roadies riding close. Mab be a couple though but didn't put on twitter as it encourages 'whitaboutery'
Posted 4 years ago # -
Shot taken moments earlier - blue car was right behind a black car.
Other pictures taken to show how even adding just a few cars changes the park and how people interact. One actually has couple cycling on cycleway - not the best choice as often too close to walkers. Best practice is to allocate empty road space.
Posted 4 years ago # -
“
A spokesperson for Historic Environment Scotland said: “All roads within Holyrood Park remain open with the exception of the High Road, which is closed for the annual toad migration.
“
That’s alright then.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Alternative suggestion:
The council closes all its roads into the park. Takes Historic Scotland out of the game.
(Can’t claim credit for this - someone on twitter suggested it)
Posted 4 years ago # -
@Stickman that's an idea...
Posted 4 years ago # -
Cycling through this morning I noticed local 'vigilantes' had barriered and coned off the car park at the Meadowbank entrance to Holyrood Park. Sign stuck to the barriers said 'Stay Home - Covid-19'. Good Work!
Posted 4 years ago # -
Police encouraging this, well actively discouraging cliping on your neighbours
Posted 4 years ago # -
The dog-walkers' car park at the top of Midmar Drive and the car park at Blackford Pond were both coned off the other day when I went past. Quite a few people still happily parking on Braid Road at the Hermitage entrance though.
I think Holyrood Park actually has a lot more open space where you can keep a good distance from other people than Blackford Hill and the Hermitage. I'm not convinced that a few folks driving a short distance to exercise in as safe an outdoor environment as possible - given the difficulties sometimes involved in safely negotiating streets on foot even with the current reduced traffic levels - is completely out of order.
I actually raised this question a week or so back wrt a friend who had been badly spooked by non-distancing pedestrians in her local streets and parks. There is a council golf course within a mile of her house where (given that there's no play allowed atm) there would be lots of space to take a walk at a safe distance from other folks. But she can't face the walk to get there. Those who offered an opinion at the time seemed to think that driving the short distance to get there would be acceptable.
There was recent mention of the risk of being over-judgemental over on the "do we need a coronavirus thread" thread. And there was this on the BBC news web site earlier today:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-52230081
Posted 4 years ago # -
Broad Pavement (which I have just found out is the official name for the Holyrood Palace car park) was closed off with No Parking cones today - officially? Car in front of me seemed very puzzled it was shut. I was puzzled that the car was puzzled as I hadn't previously read this thread and was wondering why anyone would be expecting to be able to park there at the current time.
High Road was a delight - thank the Lord for the toad migration. I heard each toad has more brains individually than Historic Environment Scotland has collectively?
Posted 4 years ago # -
@Murun, you been listenin to Dem syreens propaganda? You know they did this to Pete? They loved him up then turned him into a horny toad and turned him in for the reward money.
Posted 4 years ago # -
“Those who offered an opinion at the time seemed to think that driving the short distance to get there would be acceptable”
Short is always a relative term...
There is no ‘right’ answer that will suit everyone.
Perhaps people with a garden bigger than(?) shouldn’t be allowed out to exercise at all!
The main thing with Holyrood Park is that it’s possible to drive through.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@gembo I should clarify I didn't actually see any toads (though I was keeping a good lookout), never mind lick them. Toads deserve social distancing too.
Park was plenty busy without parking, though I am struck by how many people stick rigidly to the paths/road - like, the green stuff's good for walking on too, especially when it's been as dry as it's been.
Saw quite a few stravaiging on Carrick Knowe GC on the way back - now that's the idea...
Posted 4 years ago # -
All cycling is banned in another drive thru Royal Park - Richmond Park in dat London
Posted 4 years ago # -
Golf courses are great for exercising and social distancing.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Craigentinny golf pitch usually sparsely-populated with households playing ball games with dogs and children. It still had a couple of stray golifers on it during wc 23/04 but I assume their golf building now now shut.
I keep thinking Richmond Park is my sister's local park but that was when she lived in/near Wombledrome over a decade ago. She's still somewhere near the former flight path of Heathrow in the area where some people sometimes complain about their roads being shut for people to race bicycles.
Posted 4 years ago # -
I wrote to HES to ask whether the roads and carparks in Holyrood Park could be closed during the lockdown to allow pedestrians more space.
The reply from 9 April includes "We would also encourage individuals to consider whether their vehicle journey to Holyrood Park is entirely necessary" and "the majority of the park road network remains open as a route for emergency vehicles to gain access across the city and to facilitate usage for key workers and services."
So business as usual, with the toads given more consideration than the locals.Posted 4 years ago #
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