I certainly can't imagine that "I couldn't see because it was foggy" would gain much sympathy. Why should bright sunshine be a more effective defence than fog?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
Today's rubbish sentencing
(262 posts)-
Posted 4 years ago #
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"found not guilty of causing death by careless driving by a jury"
Tells you all you need to know.
70% or more will be drivers, imagining themselves behind the wheel in this case."Blinded by the light". The classic drivist excuse for killing someone. Standard defence lawyer gambit. Law needs changing.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Utterly extraordinary:
Cycling UK member David Brennan was assaulted while cycling to work. The driver was not prosecuted and shockingly, David himself was given a police warning for swearing.
https://www.cyclinguk.org/news/cycling-uk-demands-reform-after-assaulted-cyclist-warned-swearing
Posted 4 years ago # -
Just imagine that outcome if the weapon was a baseball bat rather than a car.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Ain't Polis Scotland great. Maybe that nice Mr Murrell could have a word...
Posted 4 years ago # -
That does sound like a warning was being given, but not for the swearing. That's an extrajudicial instruction to pipe down.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Yep
Ain’t just gangsters DB filters past oN the BearsWay. COPPERS stuck in traffic too.
Posted 4 years ago # -
I think I'll be mentioning this in my submission to Scotland's Road Safety Framework to 2030 Draft Public Consultation
If the police think they are above enforcing the law then there is no way vision zero can work. Or are we looking at the birth of shared aspiration zero?
Posted 4 years ago # -
i thought Brennan showed great restraint there, given that the perp was a typical rager, who ran back to the safety of his cage quickly enough
As for the official reaction, it really is quite simple -
Police Scotland are primarily a Motoring Organisation with a sideline in providing assistive paperwork for insurance claims
Posted 4 years ago # -
@bax, "Police Scotland are primarily a Motoring Organisation with a sideline in providing assistive paperwork for insurance claims"
Agreed!
They certainly are keen on driving everywhere much of the time (sorry, I meant "going on patrol").
Posted 4 years ago # -
Also agree especially as I got told by a policeman after I complained about lack of prosecution of the driver that had knocked me down they had fulfilled their duty in respect of insurance.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Cycle law Scotland essential
Posted 4 years ago # -
I can admit to plenty of shouting and swearing at motorists, also pedestrians, also dogs. Should I give myself up?
Posted 4 years ago # -
@Rosie, yes, hand yourself in but get Cycle Law Scotland to defend you. You can be the test case.
Dave B punched in coupon and warned for swearing. Polis reveal their hand. calamero comes to mind (small cartoon chicken before Shughie McPhee on Crossroads - catchphrase Eets an Injustice eet EEZ)
Posted 4 years ago # -
Cycle law are great at compensation and would always recommend them but when i was arrested and charged by police after being run down by a car they couldn't help.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@miak, fair point.
I do know a very good criminal lawyer in Edinburgh and another one in Glasgow.
Never had to use them personally but iI know they are good.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Read extended article. Cycle law Scotland were involved along with others.
Dave B case dropped due to being disproportionate but only after 7 months
Posted 4 years ago # -
The warning has been delivered.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Masons of the world unite you have nought to lose but your no claims bonuses
Posted 4 years ago # -
i've been puzzling over the mysterious written warning the cops claim to have issued the perp, how would it read ?
we appreciate your frustration in suffering a gallus cyclist on this busy glesga road, flitting around like a pesky midge, not abiding by the rules the rest of us have to follow.. its a nuisance.. so it is but.. eh, big man
and the boy's got form for this an aw.. aye moaning about stuff wi his cheap inadmissable helmet cam..
however, your resorting to physical violence puts us in a difficult position.. so.. eh.. just gonnae no
Posted 4 years ago # -
Whilst each of these deaths is a tragedy and I believe jail sentences are appropriate, I do wonder if the likelihood of going to jail was increased for killing people when driving. Would this alter driver behaviour at all?
Posted 4 years ago # -
@gembo
I have casually scanned some criminology texts. It appears that the key to deterrence is the detection, not the punishment. It is the shame of being seen rather than the fear of imprisonment that keeps us on the straight and narrow.
Posted 4 years ago # -
“Would this alter driver behaviour at all?“
Probably
But
Drink driving laws changed things, partly by making it socially unacceptable, but also by making it clear it was illegal to drink more than a certain amount before driving.
In addition there was significant police action and the use of a test that most people accepted was justifiable and accurate.
Things have changed.
As Chris Boardman said yesterday on Desert Island Discs, his mother was killed because someone was texting.
This is already illegal, widely - and visibly - done.
However, annual eye tests might also reduce the number of incidents (not just fatal ones).
And of course tests every 5 years - not just for ‘competency’, but also to make sure people knew about new laws and Highway Code changes.
But of course that would be an attack on ‘law abiding motorists’ (are there any?) and ‘disproportionately affect poorer drivers’. In which case - if the Gov cared about ‘road safety’ - compulsory 5 yearly tests would be free. Almost certainly cheaper than police and hospital time etc.
OR could be paid for by insurance companies(?)
Posted 4 years ago # -
“It is the shame of being seen rather than the fear of imprisonment that keeps us on the straight and narrow.“
Almost certainly, but some aspects of driving - eg speeding - now seems to be something that ‘everyone does’, so shaming is more difficult.
Posted 4 years ago # -
“
AN American woman who killed a pensioner in a horrific car crash after driving on the wrong side of the road has been admonished.
“
Posted 4 years ago # -
Leanne Bailey, 41, said she has been left ‘heartbroken’ after Barry McConnell was handed a community sentence for causing the accident which claimed the life of her husband Gwyn.
McConnell was given 225 hours of unpaid work and placed on a strict home curfew for nine months, with an electronic tag, keeping him indoors from 9pm to 6am Monday to Friday and from 7pm until 7am at weekends.
Sheriff Craig, a keen cyclist, also banned McConnell from driving for 15 months and ordered him to pass an extended driving test before getting back behind the wheel.
Surveyor McConnell was also fined £1,275 for having no MoT on his Mercedes and illegal tinted windows.
Sheriff Craig said: “I don’t accept any suggestion.. that what Mr Bailey was wearing should in any way mitigate any part of his responsibility for what happened that day.
“It’s clear from the photographs that the clothing was entirely appropriate cycling gear and I reject any such suggestion.
“I’m told your sight was dazzled by the sun as you turned the junction but the other statements in this case suggest that the sun wasn’t particularly bright and others were driving without their face visors.”
Posted 4 years ago # -
Arghhhh "Keen cyclist" alert
Posted 4 years ago # -
Mr McConnell killed an innocent man while driving an illegal motorcar. He then made several feeble excuses while hiring a lawyer who prides himself on getting guilty people off their charges on technicalities. I assume even his lawyer realised how hopeless his case was which is why he admitted careless driving.
His sentence is appalling, not least because of his lack of remorse, but given the sheriff's comments I assume it's the law and sentencing guidance which are at fault.
Compared to what I assume he has paid the lawyer the fine will barely register.
Posted 4 years ago # -
why
do
they
even
bother
wasn't me Gov, ok that's fine thenPosted 3 years ago #
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