CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

Today's rubbish sentencing

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  1. edinburgh87
    Member

    Not a sentence (sadly) but a case from a year or so ago:

    Link

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    “The Crown reserves the right to proceed in the future should further evidence become available.”

    Mmm

    There’s seems to be more than enough evidence in that article for a court case.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Presumably neither suspect will say who was driving. Quite ridiculous really.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. MediumDave
    Member

    Is joint enterprise a thing in Scotland?

    It appears quite reasonable (to me) that either party as a passenger in the vehicle could forsee that the driver might commit a variety of offences while speeding and subsequenly leaving the scene of the accident. The doctrine is (or was) widely used in That England to punish gang related stuff (justly or unjustly).

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    "Is joint enterprise a thing in Scotland?"

    https://crime.scot/concert/

    Wouldn't be applicable to driving offences

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    Also (though this might just be about law in England)

    This narrower area of secondary responsibility has sometimes been labelled “joint enterprise”, but this is to misuse that expression. To speak of a joint enterprise is simply to say that two or more people were engaged in a crime together. That, however, does not identify what mental element must be shown in the secondary party. The particular narrower area of secondary responsibility here in question – where crime B is committed during the course of crime A – has been, in the past, more precisely labelled “parasitic accessory liability”.

    https://www.scottishlegal.com/articles/supreme-court-rules-earlier-cases-wrong-to-treat-foresight-as-sufficient-test-for-murder

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    Jack Rawlins was given a suspended jail sentence for this assault on a cyclist in Bristol.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/bbcbristol/status/1577295341736660993

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    What makes it worse is the thug had a previous caution for a similar attack on a cyclist. 'Justice' system, eh?

    https://road.cc/content/news/suspended-sentence-road-rage-van-driver-296395

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. Frenchy
    Member

    Doesn't appear to have been charged with any driving offences, so hasn't even got points on his license?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    https://planetradio.co.uk/borders/local/news/berwickshire-death-by-careless-driving-keith-halliday/

    "A motorist who admitted causing the death of a cyclist by careless driving in the Borders has avoided a custodial sentence."

    190 hours of unpaid work, a nine month curfew and 12 months driving ban.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. chdot
    Admin

    Anne Sacoolas, the killer of British teenager Harry Dunn, has been handed an eight-month suspended sentence by a judge, who also disqualified the US citizen for driving for 12 months.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/08/anne-sacoolas-killer-british-teenager-harry-dunn-sentenced

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. edinburgh87
    Member

    Wow. Kill someone cause you’re too thick to drive on the proper side of the road and then skip the country and the punishment is basically “don’t offend for the next 8 months”.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

  14. chdot
    Admin

  15. edinburgh87
    Member

    Remember that at the time. Clearly a lifetime ban candidate!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    And again. Suspended sentence for a crime with a 5 year max custodial sentence. What a country.

    "Driver, 68, rammed rider off his bike in Falkirk road rage horror

    An angry motorist pursued a cyclist he thought had bumped his car and then rammed him off his bike leaving the rider lying on the road in agony with multiple fractures.

    Dashcam footage of the incident involving James Reid, 68, was shown at Falkirk Sheriff Court last Thursday.

    He had pleaded guilty to dangerous driving and causing serious injury to the man – swerving around the carriageway and striking the cyclist, causing him to fall off his bike – in Carron Road, Falkirk on November 22, 2019.

    The court heard Reid accepted he had “behaved badly” and had “done wrong”. He was said to have paid damages to the cyclist.

    It was stated Reid had “learned a lesson” and was a man who was “genuinely remorseful”.

    Sheriff Alison Michie said: “You are 68-years-old and a first offender and you have a clean driving licence according to the information provided by the DVLA. However, there are a number of aggravated factors to this offence.

    "The manner of your driving saw you repeatedly swerving until you struck the cyclist with your car to his very seriously injury – fracturing a vertebra and his pelvis. You say you experienced a red mist, believing him to have hit your car and you drove after him with the intention of speaking to him.

    "You also did not stop to offer assistance – instead you turned your phone off and drove home.”

    She placed Reid, 20 Ochilmount, Bannockburn, on a restriction of liberty order, meaning he will have to remain in his home between 8pm and 7am for the next four months.

    He was also banned from driving for two years."

    https://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/news/crime/driver-68-rammed-rider-off-his-bike-in-falkirk-road-rage-horror-3959359

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

  18. chdot
    Admin

  19. chdot
    Admin

    May or may not be inappropriate

    But

    In August, Shelagh Robertson was found not guilty of causing Louis’s death through careless driving by reason of insanity, with jurors believing that her undiagnosed dementia had affected her capacity.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/12/baby-killed-car-parents-road-deaths-louis-thorold-foundation

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    £400 seems like adequate compensation for being assaulted in front of your child, said noone ever

    https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-driver-held-plastic-fork-26148085

    Complete psychopath of a red van driver.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

    A van driver has been sentenced after he assaulted a motorist and held plastic cutlery to his throat after he crashed into him in the capital. *Video Contains Swearing and Violence*

    https://mobile.twitter.com/martinjourno/status/1621404804332376064

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    I have no words...

    https://twitter.com/PCTomVanDerWee/status/1630977213045538821

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-64809523

    "PC Hutchinson added that fearing Clark's car would catch fire, officers had "risked their own lives" to get him out of his car and provide first aid."

    I'd be sparking up a lighter rather than rescuing...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. neddie
    Member

    Kill someone and maim 5 family members:

    100 hours community service, 12 month ban

    Apparently a "momentary lapse of attention"

    ...Driving on the pavement... followed by getting out of the Range Rover and acting like she'd just parked it... Hmmm

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-64811625

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    @neddie

    Another one for the "something nearly impossible happened to me when I killed and maimed those people, but it'll never happen again" excuse.

    "Medical experts who gave evidence could not rule out Henry suffered a sudden loss of consciousness at the wheel."

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. neddie
    Member

    If medical experts can never rule out sudden losses of consciousness at the wheel, it demostrates that it is inherently unsafe (and never will be safe) to allow the general public to drive motor vehicles...

    A good start would be to mandate annual medical exams for drivers. Increasing the barriers to entry would also help with the motor-vehicle-reduction-in-kilometres goal

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

  27. chdot
    Admin

    Don’t know about rubbish, but certainly odd -

    The boy was also disqualified from driving for five years.

    Both of his parents have been given a six-month parenting order and ordered to pay the prosecution costs of £85 and a victim surcharge of £26.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-64892358.amp

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Life is cheap. But it's definitely possible to have points added to one's future driving licence.

    Thing is, almost all of the e-scooters I've encountered first hand have been travelling at 19-20mph as measured with my bike's GPS-calibrated speedo, and not only is this actually quite hard work to keep up with, it's about the same top speed as an averagely fit person can run/sprint. The e-scooter regulations and inspections are not fit for purpose, however much the scooters themselves should be a very valid form of transport.

    I have no doubt that it's quite possible to injure or even kill someone if you collide with them while moving at that speed, scooter or no scooter, bike or no bike. Footways are also full of small hazards: fence posts, car mirrors, plant pots, metal drain covers, garden walls, kerb stones...in a way that the carriageway tends not to be; the same conditions are why it's safer to lose control on a proper motor racing circuit than a street circuit.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    I don't think the average fit person could sprint 19-20mph - that would be elite 400m pace and I don't think most people could do that even over short distances? 15mph sounds like a more plausible top speed for me.

    20mph is properly quick in an urban environment and any vehicle wanting to travel that quickly should be on the carriageway. I believe the guidance is that 16mph should be the max in shared spaces?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. fimm
    Member

    I think you are overestimating running speeds a bit. I reckon my top sprint speed is about 10 mph, and a 10 second 100m is 22mph (that's not achievable by an average person!)

    Posted 1 year ago #

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