CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Edinburgh Tram Extension to Newhaven

(319 posts)

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  1. Klaxon
    Member

    I tried to engage and be constructive in my reply with ideas

    Broadly my response was

    Leith Walk should be 1 lane, with loading lanes where space permits (most of it)

    There should be cycle lanes the whole way down

    The central reservation should be extremely wide to facilitate tiger crossings of the tram line at intervals similar to pedestrian crossing frequency just now

    Peak time traffic ban

    I pointed out that the scheme as proposed does not comply with council guidelines nor any previous work done in Leith Programme 1-4

    I provided some drawings to support my ideas because this stuff is hard in writing. They all are minimum-widths for the named segment.

    https://streetmix.net/-/658454
    https://streetmix.net/-/658451
    https://streetmix.net/-/658456
    https://streetmix.net/-/658460
    https://streetmix.net/-/658461

    I made the case for a (narrow) 2 way lane on Constitution St, at the expense of pavement width

    I argued for this lane to continue all the way to Melrose Dr via Ocean Dr in some form (this is the way I cycle to Ocean Terminal, it is much quieter and safer than Great Junction St)

    I objected to the need for a new road junction with detriment to cycle amenity at the mill end of Melrose Dr as it is currently a cul de sac

    Only in the passing was I able to mention I support the tram extension to Newhaven if done correctly, the consultation focuses purely on the design as presented

    Posted 6 years ago #

  2. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @Klaxon

    I wish I had your faith in council processes. Lots of people spent time and energy producing some exquisite drawings for Picardy Place and the bulldozers are creating the Island of the Dead there as I type.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  3. dougal
    Member

    @IWRATS As a replacement for the Paolozzi sculptures we're getting homage to Bocklin in concrete and steel?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  4. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Is that.....a pavillion?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  5. dougal
    Member

    For your convenience you can drive right into the underworld (free parking provided).

    Posted 6 years ago #

  6. chdot
    Admin

    Posted 6 years ago #

  7. Klaxon
    Member

    @iwrats

    I'm not sure I do, but sometimes listening happens, so it's worth a go.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  8. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Some good comments from Dave du Feu here:

    "Dave Du Feu, of campaigners Spokes Lothian, said: “It is very unfortunate the layout of the original tram has resulted in so many tramline crashes and injuries, and hence so many claims against the council.

    “This should be yet another reason for the council to rethink its plans for Leith Walk between Pilrig and Foot of the Walk, which introduce additional traffic lanes and therefore squeeze cycle and pedestrian provision intolerably.

    “The proposed cycle provision will force people to cycle close to the tramlines when overtaking parked vehicles, and any traffic moving out can inadvertently force the bike into the tramlines.

    “This will be a considerably worse situation than the Princes Street layout, where the only traffic is buses and taxis. A rethink is essential. The present proposal not only endangers cyclists but creates very bad pedestrian conditions.”

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/new-tram-policy-claim-payments-rise-from-10-000-to-100-000-1-4712869

    Posted 6 years ago #

  9. McD
    Member

    #tramstonewhaven on tonight's Agenda for Leith Harbour & Newhaven Community Council https://lhncc.org.uk/ @LeithHNCC

    Posted 6 years ago #

  10. Klaxon
    Member

    ‘The most irritating thing about this consultation is that there is a long history of #Leith folk engaging in these processes, and they all conclude that there is strong support for a pedestrian and cycle friendly #Leith Walk. Here's a report from 2013 > https://t.co/1Tv4PgWUML ‘

    https://twitter.com/allytibbitt/status/976396626439868417?s=21

    Posted 6 years ago #

  11. chdot
    Admin

    “there is a long history of #Leith folk engaging in these processes”

    Technical term for consequences - Consultation Fatigue.*

    Most likely to be found in ‘poor/deprived/underprivileged’ areas.

    Q “What do you want”

    A “This and that”

    Result ‘They don’t seem to want what we want, so we’ll just do what we had planned’ (Or spend the money elsewhere OR ‘well we never had a budget to do much and most of that was spent on consultants and consultation’).

    “

    *WHAT WOULD DRIVE PEOPLE AWAY?

    • Failure to deliver on projects that have been consulted on previously.

    • Failure to explain why projects couldn’t be delivered.

    • Failure to acknowledge previous contributions.

    “

    http://www.bangthetable.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Managing-consultation-fatigue-1.pdf

    Posted 6 years ago #

  12. fimm
    Member

    http://www.holyrood.com/articles/comment/active-travel-afterthought

    "And while the walk through Edinburgh’s Old Town is certainly scenic enough, it isn’t entirely pleasant. Among the barriers along the route that show the car is still king are numerous places with poor crossings or where pedestrians have to cross two or three sides of a junction to get to where they want to go, too narrow pavements where to pass another person you have to walk in the road, bad parking blocking the pavement or junctions, and speeding traffic ignoring the unenforced 20mph limit.
    ...
    That’s not even to mention cycling, which I am not willing to risk my life doing on streets without proper cycle lanes. A few painted red strips here and there do not count in my book.    "

    Posted 6 years ago #

  13. chdot
    Admin

    http://www.spokes.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/spwkr18.03.28.pdf

    Posted 6 years ago #

  14. McD
    Member

    Spokes went for a walkabout yesterday and now has a lot of counts to write up.
    One point that we raised was about the location of the tram stops - especially that on Constitution Street. Also,mother style.
    See my query and espouse from tram team (Rory) below:

    Spokes undertook a route audit today and feel that relocating a tram stop and changing from a central platform to twin or staggered platforms might provide opportunists for improving the customer experience and the cycling facilities.

    Pleased to let you know that the areas you outline below do fall within the scope of the consultation exercise, so changes you suggest could indeed change.

    Happy for you to share this via social media and other channels with a link to the consultation. The more responses we get on a certain issue, will clearly give it more weight when we come to analyse and respond.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  15. Klaxon
    Member

    What specific areas did the group feel staggered/side stops would be preferred?

    Done proposed Constitution Street style, they can be a bike trap

    Posted 6 years ago #

  16. Klaxon
    Member

    You could do something like this with a long northbound combined bus/tram stop on the walk, and a southbound combined bus/tram stop on constitution st with a narrow bi directional cycleway

    https://streetmix.net/-/660263
    https://streetmix.net/-/660264

    Both views looking north

    Posted 6 years ago #

  17. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Drop-in consultation today Tue 3rd McDonald Rd library 10am-4pm HERE-->

    https://t.co/d5lVHXzzVE

    Our view in newsletter HERE-->

    https://t.co/VEx8VZgGA7

    #TramsToNewhaven

    http://pic.twitter.com/lk0s4Q3GzT

    “

    https://twitter.com/spokeslothian/status/981096232528613376

    Posted 6 years ago #

  18. chdot
    Admin

    “

    We are assured the £165m tram completion to Newhaven is not a done deal, but is anyone really betting against the scheme going ahead?

    Nothing suggests the SNP/Labour administration is not determined to press ahead, and it was telling that the Conservative group, the only party still opposing the scheme, was kept in the dark about a significant announcement about the tendering process.

    The naming of the four companies competing for the contract last month was a significant moment, but in an official briefing about the project’s progress for Tory councillors the night before strangely there was no mention of it. As the kids say, whatevs, but we still await an explanation.

    “

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/john-mclellan-a-public-transport-scheme-that-doesn-t-cost-165m-1-4718553

    Posted 6 years ago #

  19. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    that didn’t stop the administration jamming on the anchors when pressured by the cycling lobby and ordering a reconfiguration which will cost the tax-payer an extra £6m

    Ah, so it was us that mandated the Picardy Place Island of the Dead? I can see why taxpayers would be furious.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  20. gembo
    Member

    These opinion pieces by John McClellan are at least semi-detached from reality

    Posted 6 years ago #

  21. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I am a bad person but I'm not bad enough to be an elected representative of the Tory party in Scotland. Shame, I'm missing out on a lot of carefree fun and money. I could really make a name for myself if I wasn't held back by my remaining fragments of conscience.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  22. gembo
    Member

    Often a spell in the chokey is the only way these Tories ever reconsider their lives.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  23. crowriver
    Member

    Judging by his later comments on the airport access road, it seems Cllr McLellan's main priorities are encouraging car use and minimising disruption to Traffic Flow.Presumably for selfish reasons? Or is he simply reflecting the priorities of those who voted for him?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  24. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Economic growth, @crowriver. Simultaneously the solution to, and the cause of, all our problems.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  25. dougal
    Member

    Aye but not actual economic growth, with evidence and such. Instead the kind of economic growth that comes with building houses and student accommodation and running as many lanes of traffic as possible to them. The local businesses and such can go hang.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  26. crowriver
    Member

    "the kind of economic growth that comes with building houses and student accommodation and running as many lanes of traffic as possible to them."

    Aha. Economic growth that produces nice returns on investment for the likes of international pension funds and RBS. Oh and large construction firms. Anyone else not connected with these companies can go hang. Especially local residents, sorry, I meant peripheral non revenue generating nuisances.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  27. McD
    Member

    Spokes' interim response should be popping up on the website soonish.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  28. chdot
    Admin

    “

    There used to be Trams not very quick

    Gotcha from place to place

    But now there's just jams half a mile thick

    I'm walking

    “

    http://www.lyricsera.com/1049347-lyrics-fings-aint-wot-they-used-tbe.html

    (1960)

    Posted 6 years ago #

  29. gembo
    Member

    Good old Lionel.

    OT did you know Cameron Mackintosh bailed him out after he gambled all his earnings away? I think he bought back his songwriting credits and gave them to him or sumfink?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  30. neddie
    Member

    http://www.ntbcc.org.uk/reflections-on-9-april-ntbcc-meeting-from-allan-jack/

    Members were disappointed that Council officials cancelled a planned presentation on the tram proposals at the last moment. A joint presentation by Edinburgh Council for community councils and local councillors is planned instead at which NTBCC will be represented. We will then discuss the proposals and make a submission. We have invited transport officials to honour their original commitment and meet with NTBCC and local residents at some future date. Some members and some residents felt that the tram consultation process lacked credibility and that the public engagement process was flawed and rushed...

    and...

    We continue to seek new members.

    -> It would be good if someone from here (or any active travel proponent) were to join and "balance" the views a little

    Posted 6 years ago #

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