@chdot - Is this thread the place for the tram route as a whole or just the Leith Walk bit?
I'm just back from the drop-in and want to share pictures and feedback.
I started one 2 months ago "Edinburgh Tram to Newhaven" to cover the full route so was going to add to that - the topic seems clearer.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Latest plans for Leith Walk - and how to deal with them
(255 posts)-
Posted 6 years ago #
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Posted 6 years ago #
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“Is this thread the place for the tram route as a whole or just the Leith Walk bit?”
Good question.
Might be good to have another thread (or more??) for other sections too.
"Edinburgh Tram to Newhaven" obviously valid too.
Feedback your full comments photos there and link from here (plus add LW relevant bits here if you can be bothered).
Posted 6 years ago # -
A reminder -
MY bold (not that the public knows anything).
“
Below are some of the key findings:
• 59% agreed that the line would benefit Leith with 58% saying it would be easier to get around and 42% saying it would be good for local business
• 91% were satisfied with current transport provision on Leith Walk
• When asked what would improve public transport provision in Leith Walk, the most popular response at 38% was 'introduce a tram service' NB most respondents currently used buses or walking to get to and around Leith
• 56% said they were likely to use the new line
• Among those who did not think Leith would benefit, concerns focused chiefly on disruption, delays and congestion resulting from construction works
If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to get in touch.“
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18506#post-276826
Posted 6 years ago # -
Being satisfied and seeking improvements are not mutually exclusive states of mind
Posted 6 years ago # -
“Being satisfied and seeking improvements are not mutually exclusive states of mind”
Absolutely.
I wonder what the question was that got the 91%, presumably bus related.
I expect most people are happy with frequent 22s and other routes.
What happens when some or all are partly withdrawn and the tram stops in fewer places than the buses?
Improvement?
Not studied the plans. Are there bus stops in all the same places as now?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Initial feedback and photos from Drop-In session at http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18506&replies=24#post-278265
Posted 6 years ago # -
"Is this true?"
Certainly there are Prior Approvals (presumably under delegated authority) for tram stops from 2008 on the Planning Portal.
08/00601/PA & 08/00602/PA came up using a simple Googol search.
There were "informatives" provided in 2011 on exact tram shelter design, etc. but no updates since then. The permissions were granted for 5 years, by which time development is supposed to have commenced.
So the question is, have these Prior Approvals lapsed? Or do the "tram enabling works" ongoing since 2011 constitute the commencement of development? If they do, then opposing the design of the tram stops will attract dismissal on the grounds of "Prior Approval" as we saw with the 2009 Picardy Place "consultation". If they don't then it's a different ball game, so to speak.
Posted 6 years ago # -
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Poles, central reservations, stop locations, cycling infrastructure, traffic reduction all open for consideration and best in a holistic, rather than piecemeal view as many interdependencies.
“
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18506#post-278265
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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We need to get the support of ordinary Leithers, whose current sole concern about this is the fact that the tram is coming down the walk. They've no idea that their ability to cross the roads is to be removed, nor any of the other issues we're discussing.
Someone needs to create a document containing Andy's points / diagrams and comments and get it posted to the I Love Leith FB group asap if we want to swell the numbers calling on the council to rethink / start again.
Currently the only real issue most Leithers think is coming is the demolition of the row of shops containing the Leith Depot & Bed Shop etc and their replacement with another huge student housing block, a hotel solely for visiting relatives of said students and - likely - more Starbucks/Costa.
If someone can create a document summarising the issues, I can post it as I'm a member of ILL (it's a group which you need to request to join).
Posted 6 years ago # -
@threefromleith, why not produce something yourself? You seem to have summarised things quite succinctly there. It'll sound better coming direct from you, surely?
Posted 6 years ago # -
“We need to get the support of ordinary Leithers, whose current sole concern about this is the fact that the tram is coming down the walk. They've no idea that their ability to cross the roads is to be removed, nor any of the other issues we're discussing.”
Well some must!
As has been mentioned on here before ‘it’s not just about the tram’!
I’m sure there will be plenty of people in Leith who like the idea of the tram - especially if it can be done without the chaos of elsewhere AND the chaos of the first attempt to move the utilities.
There will be plenty of people who don’t want the tram (not just because of past and future chaos).
I presume there are plenty of people pleased with some of the recent changes on LW and would like more, so an ideal time to contrast ‘what could be’ with what is currently planned.
But WHY are ‘ordinary people’ having to spend so much time and effort to improve on the blinkered efforts of CEC?!
If CEC really wants informed discussion perhaps they would allow some ‘alternative vision’ display boards at their remaining consultation sessions.
Anyone fancy asking??
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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"Thousands of high street outlets have closed in the last decade, leaving behind a wasteland of betting shops. But one community in York has found a simple way to reverse the decline. Could their model be used nationwide?"
" in ... York’s premier shopping strip, Coney Street, ... 20% of units lie empty... Less than a mile away, a stroll down Bishopthorpe Road reveals many of the elements that are on everyone’s wishlist for a decent local high street: a handful of excellent cafes and restaurants, hardware shop, chemist, baker, two greengrocers, a brace of small supermarkets, pub, bike shop, deli and butcher. Most are independent, and many have won awards."
Posted 6 years ago # -
I know LW will never be pedestrianised, but is there any scope for sections being tram and bike only?
This is interesting from ‘transport experts’.
“
But the STSG was equally keen to highlight the best in Scottish transport. Buchanan Street in Glasgow, the premier traffic-free shopping area in the city centre, was praised as a “social and economic magnet”.“
Posted 6 years ago # -
I was on leith Walk about 7pm last night very few cars though many being driven badly. there was nearly a three car smash as I unlocked my bike .
Struggled to use the bike advance light to turn right along McDonald road as red box had two cars in it.
When I finally arrived home we watched an episode of The Bridge, it is back on catch up. The Danish cop crosses the street in Copenhagen, he just saunters in front of the bikes, all very civilised.or crazy?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Evening average speeds down the 4 lane parts of Leith Walk are easily over 30mph
During the phase 4 roadworks with narrow lanes they would not have been above 20mph
Aside from the obvious aggravation of being close to heavy machines working, the experience of crossing the street during that time was very democratic as the green man at McDonald Road ran regularly, for a long time, and the low average speed meant you could more often than not just stroll across in the gap between cars (as opposed to a panicked jog).
Posted 6 years ago # -
CEC are trying to turn Leith Walk int a road when they should be aiming for a street.
Posted 6 years ago # -
In case you don’t click the link or read to the end -
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Mayor de Blasio’s adoption of Vision Zero has cut the annual number of pedestrian deaths by 45 percent in less than five years. More than that, though, is a growing desire to exist without the triple problem of car culture: the headache, the expense, and the physical threat of being run over. Every study of younger adults shows that they seek a life that does not depend so heavily on driving. The most desirable neighborhoods in most cities and suburbs are the walkable ones, with less sprawl and good trains. Our city is particularly, beautifully suited to that life. The American dream of the open road is increasingly being revealed as a dead end. Streets, not roads, are where we want to — and ought to, and deserve to — live.
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Posted 6 years ago # -
I joked to a colleague the other day that Leith wasn't getting a tram so much as it was getting tram tracks. The words had no sooner left my mouth than I realised what a depressing outcome that is.
Posted 6 years ago # -
IWRATS - "streets" and "roads" - clearly defined in Scottish Government policy for the last eight years. See page 4:
It's not that people don't know this stuff - it's just that they choose to ignore it.
Posted 6 years ago # -
“
A report for councillors states: “As a compact, walkable city, Edinburgh’s public realm does not always provide the best pedestrian experience. Congested historic streets, narrow footways, increased footfall, street clutter, the variable quality of materials and long-wait times at crossings, frustrate safe and convenient movement. Edinburgh has an active and growing cycling culture with more people benefiting from this healthy, accessible and pollution-free way to get around. However cyclists must negotiate conflicts with cars, public transport and pedestrians.
“
https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-motorists-face-tough-new-restrictions-1-4716397
Whoever wrote that can’t be having much influence on LW/tram.
Perhaps they should submit this to the consultation...
Posted 6 years ago # -
Morningsider - thanks, but I think your link is out of date by some one hundred and nine years. Here's the current basis for the Leith Walk development;
https://beta.gov.scot/publications/designing-future-streets-diktat-scotland/documents/1909.pdf
Posted 6 years ago # -
@chdot
Whoever wrote that can’t be having much influence on LW/tram
Exactly, we're meant to believe these words when they're coming from the same council who never gave any thought to active travel (including being able to cross the road) in Leith Walk?
It doesn't ring true, does it?
Posted 6 years ago # -
IWRATS - standards of driving in Italy much as they ever were then...
Posted 6 years ago # -
@morningsider, Malta has red phone boxes, red pillar boxes, 3 pin plugs, and they drive on the left. Being close to Italy, they drive on the left to the nearest traffic jam.
Cycling on Malta not much fun. But take half hour ferry to neighbouring island of Gozo and hire a bike at the shop at the harbour and you will have a great time. Not completely traffic Free but a dawdle compared to Malta.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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The reason I had that link to hand, Morningsider, was that I was considering what philosophy might animate Her Maj's Government at the moment and Italian Futurism seemed, oddly I admit, to fit the bill. They're not very energetic, but all the mad rashness and distaste for weakness and tradition are there.
Posted 6 years ago #
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