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Do we need a UCU strike thread?

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  1. Morningsider
    Member

    Baldcyclist - if you think "the market" is a reason why academics should see their terms and conditions reduced, then should that same reasoning not apply to "the estates folk". After all, are they not also receiving what the market deems they are worth?

    As for the FTC issue, rather than rely on individual managers making a personal stand, easily dismissed by management, is it not better to have an organisation representing a large number of workers making that case? Rather harder to ignore, particularly when it is backed by the threat, however remote, of mass action if nothing is done.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I've never noticed a functioning free market in take-home earnings in the UK of GB&NI. I've been paid a pittance for back-breaking labour and had my pockets stuffed with gold for trivial effort.

    When I was working in academia I didn't care what I was paid as long as I had food and clothes and somewhere to sleep. The lack of security pushed me out though, so you could argue that the market sourced people more tolerant of precarity than me.

    The whole idea of thinking of society as primarily a market sickens and saddens me.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. Baldcyclist
    Member

    I only refered to 'market' in terms of 'pension' provision.

    Seems a bit like 'endownment', pay £££s every month and get a bucket of gold at the end of the term, except the bucket is full of chocolate coins covered in pretend gold.

    Don't be surpised if 'pension' mis-selling cases become a thing.

    The mechanism for collecting the cash may have differed (wages as opposed to direct debits), but the instruments used to try and generate the shortfall needed to provide the promised 'benefit' were/are the same.

    The mistake employers made was to attach that financial risk to 'terms and conditions' whilst being 'taken in' like everyone lese was.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Pension mis-selling has been 'a thing' since the mid nineties.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. SRD
    Moderator

    i heard about a milk delivery van choosing not to cross the picket line yesterday and have heard in the past that posties don't cross it either.

    @gembo interesting one. i would interpret going to an event at the uni as crossing a picket line, whether or not there are actual picketers there. that's not to say you shouldn't go. an organisation that am responsible for moved our meetings out of Senate house last year, since they were in conflict with the unions responsible for cleaning etc. On the other hand, I, rather unhappily, have crossed picket lines in whitehall regularly this year, as the cleaners there are also part of a grievance/ requesting to be brought back in house. both of which i support.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. gembo
    Member

    @SRD

    Hello
    We're looking forward to you joining us as The Salvesen Lecture tonight at 5.30pm at Informatics Forum, Crichton Street, Edinburgh.
    We just wanted to confirm that the lecture will be going ahead despite the University and College Union strike action taking place today. This is because it is a public event and not teaching and it is taking place outside of normal working hours.
    We look forward to seeing you tonight.
    If you aren't able to make it now, as the event is almost sold out, we'd be very grateful if you would please cancel your place so that your ticket can go to someone else.
    Thanks and best wishes
    The Salvesen Mindroom Research Centre Research Team

    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. SRD
    Moderator

    hmmm.... not sure i agree with their reasoning. universities do more than teaching. we're not just 'not teaching' while on strike. also not convinced that 'after hours' is somehow different.

    similar reasoning led one of my colleagues to attend a meeting in London, while another said he couldn't.

    modern life / work is complicated.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  8. Stickman
    Member

    Pension mis-selling has been 'a thing' since the mid nineties.

    “Pensions freedoms” and DB related scams are the next scandal waiting to burst.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. gembo
    Member

    @SRd, if there is a picket line I wont cross it

    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @Stickman

    I suggested to a provider that they should reserve against the inevitable mis-selling scandal as part of their drawdown product launch.

    I don't work there any more, obviously.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  11. SRD
    Moderator

    @gembo I asked the union and they confirmed that it is crossing the picket line if on university property, anytime of day, even if no pickets there...

    (but you will see that I have freely admitted above to having crossed a picket line myself).

    Posted 4 years ago #
  12. gembo
    Member

    @srd union having a laugh I am not in their union, i am not. On strike they would need to be present and ask me, then i would not cross

    Posted 4 years ago #
  13. wingpig
    Member

    The pickets at the Lothian St entrance to the medical quad were getting wee cheers from passers-by this morning. I was not wearing an hat, so had nowt to doff.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  14. unhurt
    Member

    Pinged my bell supportively as I passed the Old Medical School picket. Gey driech. AT least it's mild.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  15. SRD
    Moderator

    @gembo by my moral compass, if there's a strike on, ducking in an unpicketed door is the same as crossing a line.

    and there may be times/reasons why we all cross picket lines. but i don't think we should pretend to ourselves that we're not.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  16. gembo
    Member

    @SRD

    please see my earlier answer.

    If I was on strike, called out by my union I would be on strike. Not at my place of employment. Indeed I imagine if necessary I would be on the picket line. Though usually we have a demo as everything is shut down.

    I am not on strike, I am not in the UCU. However, if approached by a member of this union and asked not to cross the picket line I would not do so.

    You raise some interesting points around actual picket line versus virtual picket line et cetera but my main point is around who is on strike and what the difference is between people in that union and people in other unions. Obviously I am not needing this clarified and you are probably very busy but I also noticed upwards of 200 strike breakers at the turning on of the Xmas tree in Old College. I did not cross that picket line (virtual) I just glanced to my right as I walked by. UCU may or maY NOT have a view on this matter :-)

    Posted 4 years ago #
  17. SRD
    Moderator

    gembo - you are changing your line and going off on digressions.

    i'm not claiming that you are on strike. I am also not criticising those who do cross the picket line, whether striking or not, to work, sing carols, whatever.

    but, the organisers of an event cannot just claim that their event is not subject to a strike because it's 'no teaching'. (translate that to your own job....)

    nor does it make it any less of a strike just because there is not a person holding a placard in front of you.

    I just don't think you can say 'i wouldn't cross a picket line, but i did go into a building for an event where people are on strike, but it doesn't count'.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  18. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Am I crossing a digital picket line by reading this thread?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  19. SRD
    Moderator

    on a cheerier note, Birmingham is trying to declare picketers trespassers... https://birminghamucu.org/2019/11/27/picketing-is-not-trespass/?fbclid=IwAR3rnYKGXpsZyZiN_W_NGqhJstIBx2A5B1tae-lsNpwW-FAs8UIOEuanM-A

    Posted 4 years ago #
  20. Baldcyclist
    Member

    If you are on strike and use the services, are you breaking the picket; and controry to that if you do, and slip and fall are you then not insured as you have no right to be in the building?

    (not every building is near other facilities, and not everyone is happy to use the bushes...)

    Posted 4 years ago #
  21. Morningsider
    Member

    Yes! Also - what happens if a seagull swoops slightly too aggressively, or a colleague breaks wind at an unreasonable volume? I imagine such worries were also a major concern at the Oargreave Coking Plant.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  22. minus six
    Member

    not wishing to detract from the righteous picket, but the UCU also contains a dodgy old mish-mash of professionals and middle/senior managers many of whom i suspect will have a sneaky weeks leave or hastily scheduled foreign conference to keep themselves well away from the scene this week

    Posted 4 years ago #
  23. mcairney
    Member

    The strike dates were announced at fairly short notice (<2 weeks) so booking leave during this time would have proved difficult if not impossible unless you were a member of the UCU inner circle.

    FWIW I might raise this with our UCU reps when I'm back that it would be useful to have an indication of a) how many and b) when strikes are planned at the balloting stage. 8 days before Christmas is a lot and if I'd known they'd intended to strike for that long my choice on the ballot box may well have been different.

    Mind you I've probably just answered the reason as to why they don't do that!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  24. Baldcyclist
    Member

    Isn't the point that if you are voting to go on strike, that you are voting to do so for as long as it takes for the desired aim to be acheived?

    Think it's easy for institutions to plan for a week, or 3 Tuesdays or whatever if it is a defined length of period.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  25. gembo
    Member

    Jeez I thought I was holding my line.

    However, after crossing the non-existent picket line last night I learnt the BSL for going off at a tangent. It is as good as the other BSL sign I know. Both will be demonstrated at Soderberg this friday

    Posted 4 years ago #
  26. gembo
    Member

    I wish however to issue a correction as I see the pickets were out in person at the Xmas tree switch on. Good for them, singing carols and getting the message over

    Posted 4 years ago #
  27. LaidBack
    Member

    Passed Infirmary Street today.
    Small picket group warming themselves around a brazier outside Centre for Carbon Technology. I didn't feel I should ask what they were burning...
    Know this is serious issue for all involved.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  28. SRD
    Moderator

    Balmy on the picket line this morning.

    (Cross-post with severe weather)

    Posted 4 years ago #
  29. gembo
    Member

    Warm enough for shorts? Picket line early start? For Radio 4? Heard the VC being heckled. Could not make out what the hecklers were saying but they were persistent

    Posted 4 years ago #
  30. SRD
    Moderator

    Compared to your staff, “Do you earn too much Vice-Chancellor?”

    Loud shout of “YES!” from the back

    Posted 4 years ago #

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