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Hi all,
Bit of a random one this, but I have a leak in my roof. I think its rainwater. I live on the top floor of a tenement in Abbyhill.
What would I do now? Call my home insurance? Or call for a roofer? And then do I split the bill with the other flats? I'd imagine that's going to be fun...
Can anyone recommend a good roofer please?
Thanks, Rob.
Can anyone recommend a good roofer please?
there's a thread for that, Rob
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19982
if you've got "emergency cover" home insurance then you can invoke that now for a temp fix if there's a lot of water
you'll probably want three roofer quotes if the first one is astronomical
then enjoy the silence from your fellow tenement dwellers when you ask for contributions
sounds like "storm damage" to me btw
thats what i'd describe it as to the insurance company, the roofers, and the tenement denizens
Your neighbours on all floors in a tenement will be liable for a share. But you or your insurer will likely have to pay up front and claim it back.
As it is emergency work for the integrity of the building you can go ahead and instruct works without prior consent. It would be best though to put a note through all the doors in the stair to advise them of the damage and what your intentions are.
I'd strongly recommend you look over the council's "Tenement toolkit" https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/26385/step-by-step-tenement-toolkit-guide
It would be best though to put a note through all the doors in the stair to advise
I would also follow that up by speaking to as many of the block owners as possible. It's all too easy to ignore notes posted through the door.
Don't forget it's the owners who are liable not the residents. The residents should be able to put you in touch with their letting agents or the owners if they rent directly though.
if you can access the attic and safely get to where the leak is, I recommend putting down some of the mats that they sell for kids who bed wet. these are super absorbent, and cover a large area. often leaks run down beams, so it can be difficult to put bucket underneath, but these absorbent pads (available at most supermarkets) are brilliant. also put underneath a bucket to catch splashes/overflow.
“ I recommend putting down some of the mats that they sell for kids who bed wet. these are super absorbent, and cover a large area. often leaks run down beams, so it can be difficult to put bucket underneath, but these absorbent pads (available at most supermarkets) are brilliant.“
CCEers have all sorts of experience(s)!
often leaks run down beams
Yup, been there. A drawing pin and a bit of string can lead the water from the beam into a bucket.
“Yup, been there. A drawing pin and a bit of string can lead the water from the beam into a bucket.”
“CCEers have all sorts of experience(s)!” (and advice!)
My old flat used to have a collection of jam jars in the roof where the drips fell. There was a drip somewhere behind a press cupboard that we could never locate/fix.
The problem was where the slates met the gable wall. There was a cement overlap rather than proper flashing so it would crumble every few years.
https://www.landlordregistrationscotland.gov.uk/
Is a great place to check which flats in your stair are rented and where to find the landlord.
A belated chapeau to @SRD for the absorbent blanket tip. We've got a leak in the East Wing at Greenroofer Towers at present and these blankets are proving the perfect solution for soaking up the flow that's coming down the wall.
Micro-Greenroofer came with me to the supermarket to buy the first batch, but he's refused to come again. He says the checkout assistant gave him a look the suggested that she thought they were for him...
One advantage of factored properties, the factor will just sort whatever problem, and take a share of the money from everyone. Residents can't try to 'opt out', or at least the burden of recovery is the factors.
Of course there are numerous disadvantages too.
In a typical Scottish tenement, does anyone know who normally legally owns the attic* space?
(*not the roof itself)
Is it:
a) Communal space owned by all flats
b) The top floor flat(s)
TIA
depends on the title deeds i think.
Thanks. Is there anything typical though for properties of a certain age e.g. Victorian vs modern, or are the deeds literally all different?
It does depend on the title deeds, however ownership is not the issue here. The majority of tenements will have a "burden" that means all owners are communally responsible for roof maintenance and repairs. So for example in our tenement, top flats own the attic space, and presumably the roof itself (though deeds are silent on this) but there is a burden (i.e. responsibility) shared by all owners for roof repairs.
Modern flats may have different arrangements but normally such repairs are either communal responsibility or delegated to a factor/management company.
Sorry, should have been clearer, it's the ownership I'm interested in, as one flat owner wants to build into the attic space
@neddie, if they own the attic space then they can do that as it is classed as internal works, unless they plan a dormer or similar in which case they might need planning permission. You may want to clarify responsibility for roof repairs with them or by examining your deeds. If they put windows or a dormer in the roof, then responsibility for those precise areas may fall with them upon completion. However the rest of the roof will remain a communal responsibility.
If I was that owner, I'd be repairing the bit of the roof over the flat (and extension) during the build anyway as it would be in my interests. Also it might promote goodwill with other owners. However, legally there may be no obligation on that owner to repair the roof itself.
@Neddie: check your title deeds, if you have them. Chances are the roof and loft space are in common ownership (although not guaranteed). If this is the case then title can be transferred to the top floor flat by the other residents. You normally wouldn't get any significant payment for this, but you would no longer be liable for roof repairs. Of course, you could choose not to transfer ownership. I don't think you can be compelled to do so.
Lots of information about property ownership on the Registers of Scotland website: https://www.ros.gov.uk/services/search-property-information
BTW if the deeds are silent on who owns the attic space then my understanding is that the top flats own it, and possibly the roof itself too unless something else specified in the deeds.
So if your question is really "can I stop this happening?" then the most likely answer is no unless the deeds specify the attic or roof is jointly owned.
@Morningsider, unlikely there is communal ownership, but there might be a communal burden of responsibility to maintain the roof itself.
I think other owners may still have responsibility for roof repairs, but not around any windows etc put in?
Thanks all.
It's not that I necessarily want to stop it going ahead, but I do want to make sure that people aren't helping themselves to communally owned property
I thought I understood that it was made harder to extend into a tenement attic space in 2004 or thereabouts, but it seems the situation is less clear than I thought. This letter explains the situation in detail though I can't vouch for its accuracy: https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/no-loophole-tenements-act-attic-raiders-1550348
It sounds like you might need to speak to a lawyer!
When we sold our flat on McDonald Road in 2014 one of the first people to view it were a pair of property developers who said they exclusively bought top floor flats and converted the attics. They primarily worked in Marchmont but were looking further afield to other tenements.
I looked into it after they mentioned it and it turned out that it was silent on who owned the attic space, which means it belonged to the top floor flats, but there was 1) shared ownership of roof costs and 2) a burden of accessibility to the roof for maintenance for other users through the hatch in the attic. They didn't bid in the end but here's the kicker, if it's explicit that roof maintenance is shared between all flats then you're in a position where they can renovate the attic space but they cannot add dormers or roof lights or alter the actual roof in any way. Which makes an attic conversion near impossible.
When I owned a flat in a tenement I never considered part ownership of the roof to be an asset. If I owned a lower flat and someone wanted to convert the attic then providing the structure was sound I would be delighted to suggest that they can take full ownership of the roof and have my title deeds updated to clarify that they will be responsible for all repair to the roof going forwards.
They may own the attic space and be allowed to do with it as they wish but how would they convert it without altering the roof in any way.
"... they can renovate the attic space but they cannot add dormers or roof lights or alter the actual roof in any way. "
Not necessarily.
If the top flat also owns the roof, they can alter it as long as access rights are protected. So if say the hatch to access the roof is on their part of the roof, they leave that clear. If it's on another flat's part of the roof then as long as all flat owners can gain access the attic can be built into.
Full disclosure: I know all this because I live in a top floor flat and extended up into the attic space. This was after the 2004 act came into force.
My advice is, before even thinking about consulting a lawyer, get a copy of your title deeds and read them. Lawyers get expensive very quickly and you'll be wasting your money if there's no grounds for action.
For dormers, planning permission may be required depending on the area, where they are in the building and whether they raise the height of the roof. It costs nothing to lodge an objection. However the owner may get permission regardless, especially if neighbouring buildings already have dormer windows in the roof.
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