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Do we need a coronavirus thread?

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  1. Baldcyclist
    Member

    May very well be airborne

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-53329946

    Posted 3 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    “May very well be airborne“

    Don’t think that’s ever been in doubt - early graphics of ‘clouds’ going from one supermarket aisle to another.

    It’s still all in the unknown unknown territory -

    Outside probably ok

    2m okish

    1m ok for commercial reasons...

    Not heard so much about ‘might be ok to be in contact with someone for less than 15 mins’ lately.

    More talk about ventilation and air conditioning. Not aware of proper explanations about why flying is ‘safe’.

    From previous page -

    “So, facemasks are vital to control the spread of the virus amongst shoppers but are unnecessary in a pub?”

    Quite

    Also -

    https://www.scotsman.com/health/aerosol-boxes-increase-exposure-airborne-particles-2909060

    So, generally, dangers persist for those undertaking the most important work.

    For the rest of us (in Scotland at least) the chance of catching it is low - no reason for complacency.

    Just off to queue outside a couple of food shops and see if there is 100% compliance.

    Presume it’s for staff too - rarely seen with any face covering over past few months.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  3. neddie
    Member

    Not aware of proper explanations about why flying is ‘safe’.

    Warning: the below link contains possible manufacturer's marketing BS

    https://twitter.com/DaveWallsworth/status/1281118524820393985?s=20

    Posted 3 years ago #
  4. jdanielp
    Member

    The typical person would surely spend more time in a pub than a shop so the facemask advice should be reveresed?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  5. toomanybikes
    Member

    'Airborne' debate is utterly stupid. It's somewhat nuanced thing about droplet size and the ability for the virus to dessicate and remain infectious for long periods of time. Not at all what the public will think 'airborne' means. relates to the rate it drops out of the air rather than the possibility of getting it if someone sneezes next to you and you breathe in.

    I've been reading experts on the transmission side of things chat about it on Twitter for a while now, and I'm not really much the wiser, that article hints at the complexity but doesn't really delve into it meaningfully.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    “that article hints at the complexity but doesn't really delve into it meaningfully“

    Sums up too much of all this really.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    At least we have experts on the case -

    The Cabinet Office has awarded an £840,000 contract to research public opinion about government policies to a company owned by two long-term associates of Michael Gove and Dominic Cummings, without putting the work out for tender.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/10/firm-with-links-to-gove-and-cummings-given-covid-19-contract-without-open-tender

    Posted 3 years ago #
  8. Frenchy
    Member

    Mask-wearing rate in Moredun Morrison's this morning was at least 90%, including all staff. They were handing disposable ones out at the entrance.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  9. Baldcyclist
    Member

    From NHS Grampian on BBC site yesterday, though I've lost the link now.

    People need to have more than one facecovering, NHS Grampian advice is that people should not wear the same facecovering twice wihout it being washed. They should also not touch the facecovering once it has been put on. So keep it on for the whole shopping trip, not put on/take off as you enter/leave shops (which is what I've been doing).

    Posted 3 years ago #
  10. ejstubbs
    Member

    @Frenchy: Mask-wearing rate in Moredun Morrison's this morning was at least 90%, including all staff.

    Similar at Hunter's Tryst. However, I did notice a number of people - both staff and customers - with the mask not covering their nose, as is required by section 10 of the regulations. As a spectacles wearer I am very much aware of the difficulties that can arise when you get condensation from exhaled breath on your glasses - but AFAICS that simply demonstrates why you should keep the nose covered. (I'm pretty sure that presbyopia doesn't fall in to one of the health-based exemption categories.)

    Posted 3 years ago #
  11. ejstubbs
    Member

    @Baldcyclist: NHS Grampian advice is that people should not ... touch the facecovering once it has been put on. So keep it on for the whole shopping trip, not put on/take off as you enter/leave shops (which is what I've been doing).

    I think this depends on whether you are wearing a face covering primarily to protect yourself (i.e. as PPE e.g. for NHS staff) or to protect other people (i.e. against you spreading the virus). I believe (though no-one seems to want to come out and say clearly one way or the other) that the latter reason is the primary justification for requiring the general public to wear face coverings in shops, buses etc.

    @jdanielp: Having to keep the face covering in place once you've put it on, and not touching it until you're in a place where you can safely take it off and dispose of it/sanitise it, would make it nigh-on impossible to eat or drink if you had to wear one in pubs and restaurants. That may be why it's not required. But if mask-wearing is actually more about the protection of others than the wearer, that would suggest that it might be possible to allow people to follow a slightly more relaxed protocol (e.g. you can pull the mask down to eat or imbibe so long as you replace it immediately afterwards) in which case the justification for the exemption seems less strong.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  12. steveo
    Member

    you can pull the mask down to eat or imbibe

    Stick to the malts then. You'd spend the whole time fiddling with your mask if you had a nice cold pint, with condensation running down the outside, a nice head of foam.... mmmmmm....

    Posted 3 years ago #
  13. Roibeard
    Member

    Adjusting the mask requires you to wash your hands.

    Let's guess and say 5% of the population are infected (ridiculously high, but perhaps total recovered is in this order).

    So, 95% of the mask wearers will be actually uninfected. You touch a surface with your hands, don't wash them, then adjust the mask, potentially bringing virus particles into contact with mucus membranes, thus infecting yourself.

    Hence, poor mask use increases the risk of infection (for the wearer) just as it reduces the risk of infection (for the non-wearer. But, wearing a mask might make you touch your face less often, compounding the effect.

    Look round the next time you're in the shops - are folk touching their face more or less with masks in place?

    Robert

    Posted 3 years ago #
  14. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    'Warning: the below link contains possible manufacturer's marketing BS

    https://twitter.com/DaveWallsworth/status/1281118524820393985?s=20
    '

    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

    Posted 3 years ago #
  15. steveo
    Member

    What little desire I had to go shopping has been very quickly quashed by my face mask. Try a buff next time (supermarket only) hope this was the plan.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  16. jdanielp
    Member

    @steveo despite having a nice homemade mask gifted to me by a friend, I have started using a buff to go shopping given that it tends to fog up my glasses rather less.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  17. steveo
    Member

    The one my wife bought for me is a lycra, polyester, brimstone mix. It just agitated my beard and blew fabric dust into my eyes.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  18. stiltskin
    Member

    'Warning: the below link contains possible manufacturer's marketing BS

    https://twitter.com/DaveWallsworth/status/1281118524820393985?s=20
    '

    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
    I think it is probably fair to say that travelling in an aircraft is safer than most people think it is, but not safer than not travelling in an aircraft at all.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  19. wee folding bike
    Member

    Airdrie Tesco have removed the direction arrows.

    I had wondered if they were counter productive because of the increase in the distance traveled.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  20. jdanielp
    Member

    Sainsburys Nicholson Street staff now wearing face masks. Most but by no means all of the customers doing so too.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  21. Baldcyclist
    Member

    Sweden thinks it is quite close to herd immunity now, 10% of population have tested +ve for antibodies, and about another 20% have T-Cell immunity (or protection). Again questions about what % of population are susceptible.

    Case numbers are going up because of more testing, but hospitals are empty.

    Acknowledgment that they failed the elderly, evidence seems to suggest that most who have died would have soon anyway, but regret they went with Covid as it's a horrible way to go and those people suffered unnecessary.

    Swedish people still seem to be happy about the general strategy, but angry the elderly weren't better protected.

    (Interesting if true given everyone in UK, including Scotland are now in the herd...)

    https://youtu.be/CwQpg62Kflg

    Posted 3 years ago #
  22. Stickman
    Member

    evidence seems to suggest that most who have died would have soon anyway

    I’ve not seen the Swedish mortality analysis but there is no evidence of that being the case in the UK.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  23. Baldcyclist
    Member

    They are probably healthier, and less fat than us. Strong evidence to suggest obesity is almost as big a risk factor as age.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  24. LaidBack
    Member

    Rumours that face coverings may become mandatory at shops in England? BJ spotted with mask yesterday. He has a 41% approval rating there.

    Stats from ScotGov recorded no CV-19 deaths on many days this week. The word 'elimination' being used although as travel increases that is harder.

    E.News reports that many driving to English airports to fly to Spain. Sweden considered high risk by whole UK.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

    Food & drink industry

    ‘A slap in the face’: pub landlords livid at lack of support by Sunak

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jul/11/pub-landlords-livid-lack-of-support-rishi-sunak

    Well he is teetotal...

    Posted 3 years ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

  27. Baldcyclist
    Member

    WHO now agrees. Covid *is* airborne indoors. Avoid crowded indoor spaces...

    https://twitter.com/NYTHealth/status/1282303961417097223?s=19

    Posted 3 years ago #
  28. steveo
    Member

    Like the pub.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  29. minus six
    Member

    People who have recovered from Covid-19 may lose their immunity to the disease within months, according to research suggesting the virus could reinfect people year after year, like common colds

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests

    Posted 3 years ago #
  30. LaidBack
    Member

    We were very stupid stir crazy and went to Summerhall.
    That said it is very well managed in courtyard. Book a slot in advance. Stay away from people. Follow the signs. Less risky than Lidl. They will not open up indoors as too risky.

    Logged details for Test & Protect via QR code plus they had already contact details for booking.

    https://flic.kr/p/2jkDzRY

    Was nice and saw friends from when daughter went to Edinburgh Young Musicians. Couldn't join them. No loud drunk groups which was also good. Barney's (FarrOut delivery supporters) and Pickerings.

    Posted 3 years ago #

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