@acsimpson: I really think that if you are trying to interpret the law then you should read the law as it is written, not as expressed via the medium of the BBC's news web site. Here it is, on the official web site where all UK legislation is recorded and presented in (what I find to be) a surprisingly easy to navigate web-oriented format rather than a pdf: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2020/389/contents/made.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need a coronavirus thread?
(5710 posts)-
Posted 4 years ago #
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Thanks, It's helpful to have the actual wording. However my quotes were lifted directly from the gov.scot Covid site: https://www.gov.scot/coronavirus-covid-19/
I assume that's where the Beeb and others have been doing their copy and paste jobs from too.
Under example of reasonable excuses to leave your area the legislation from your link states:
exercise outdoors, provided that the exercise—
(i)is not organised, and
(ii)starts and ends at the same place, which place must be—
(aa)in the local government area in which the person lives, or
(bb)within 5 miles of such local government area,Presumably there are more clauses in previous versions otherwise I can't see how the Covid site ends up with the wording it does. This makes it quite clear that you are free to go where you like, but if you leave your own area then you must return to where you started.
Posted 4 years ago # -
“within 5 miles of such local government area,“
So, you can drive (or take a bus/train or cycle) a small (arbitrary) distance past an (arbitrary) line for a walk or cycle ride of ANY distance.
Also (apparently) without time restriction - so could involve camping.
By implication, this exercise can’t involve a purpose - like visiting anyone or (arguably) going to a cafe etc.
One of the earlier reasons (previous lockdowns) for not travelling/exercising far from home was the chance of involving emergency services/hospital visit. Presumably this is now regarded as a small risk(?)
“This makes it quite clear that you are free to go where you like”
That’s my interpretation too,
So, infinite number of possible bike rides (probably with others - subject to social distancing rules) and follow the “spirit” by taking your own food and drink.
SO - be sensible, be responsible and keep enjoying your favourite form(s) of exercise (legal to canoe into West Lothian - and return).
Posted 4 years ago # -
Hope this helps...
“
Scotland
Under Scottish Government guidance, Ramblers group walks are officially exempt from the 'Rule of Six'. This has been approved by sportscotland and the Scottish Government. Ramblers group walks are being run in line with our current Restart Guidance with a maximum of 30 people.
In general, no-one must travel to or from Level Three or Four local authorities for walks. However, if you live in these places, travel for 'local outdoor exercise' is exempt from the restrictions (whether it's personal or with the Ramblers). If needed, you can do a circular route that leaves your Local Authority, provided your walk starts and ends inside. You can also travel around five miles outside your boundary to start walks - but do not stop for coffee, cake, petrol etc.
People in Level Three or Four areas should only meet households from within their local authority. Walkers should not share cars with other households or use private hire vehicles (including coaches) to reach the start of walks, regardless of where you live.
“
Posted 4 years ago # -
On the travel outside Edinburgh City with 5 mile leeway for exercise question...
Will be interesting to see if there is any reduction in motorised traffic at Fairmilehead or A7 at Dalkeith zone?
Like half of Edinburgh we (Mr & Mrs LB) don't own a car. So unlikely to leave city by 'accident' plus discouragement to use PT. I was on a 23 bus other day to Morningside. Not a leisure trip and walked back. (Due to volume of traffic 'parked' on Morningside Rd about as fast.)
CV-19 experiences vary greatly I'm sure. We are lucky as have a nice flat and the shop to walk and cycle too. So our horizon is very much local. Did do a 90 mile cycle ride around Talla a few weeks ago and that bent rules of leaving level 3 to 2 so my smugness rating is not perfect :-)
I didn't stop anywhere so considered safe. Did chat at social distance to local. Loads of cars crossing boundaries - many with bikes on racks. (Yeah... I've told this tale before somewhere).Roaming by car is steadily mutating into 'mad camping' with or without campervans. (Amazing growth in these self contained mobile PPE vehicles. Few are electric.)
Posted 4 years ago # -
And Jesus said let he who is without sun cast the first stone and a rock hurtled from the back and hit the criminal. Jesus said, mother sometimes you can be a right Royal PITA
Posted 4 years ago # -
"Also (apparently) without time restriction - so could involve camping."
Not sure about that, unless maybe you're camping within the council boundary (or within 5 miles of it)? Otherwise your "exercise" would have ended somewhere else? And then started again the next morning somewhere else outwith the legal zone?
Bonaly reservoir better watch out for "legal loophole" campers...?
Posted 4 years ago # -
“Otherwise your "exercise" would have ended somewhere else?”
Mmm, that seems like a valid point.
Should be fine camping around the Pentlands(?)
Posted 4 years ago # -
"Should be fine camping around the Pentlands(?)"
Hence my comment about Bonaly, but yes within five miles of the city boundary would be fine. Could be useful on a longer walk if conditions allow.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@acsimpson: I really don't see how the section of the legislation you've quoted (and that both Frenchy and I also quoted earlier) doesn't tally with this listed exception to the Level 3 travel rules on the "guidance on travel and transport" page on the government's Coronavirus in Scotland web site that you linked to, viz:
local outdoor informal exercise such as walking, cycling, golf, or running (in groups of up to 6 people from no more than 2 households) that starts and finishes at the same place (which could be up to 5 miles from the boundary of your local authority area)
I do wonder how the Ramblers manage to get an exemption on two counts: organised exercise vs informal and group size. I would be interested to know what the Ramblers do on their organised walks that is significantly or even at all different cf what anyone else does on their informal ones. Do they ensure that social distancing is maintained within the group or something?
Posted 4 years ago # -
Serious discussion among some acquaintances on FB recently about whether they could take their kids to Hillend or not.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@chdot & crowriver: wrt to camping, I wonder whether it might fall foul of the "remaining away" bit of Section 13(1):
Restrictions on leaving Level 3 area
13.—(1) A person who lives in a Level 3 area must not leave or remain away from that area.Of course that comes before the list of exceptions to the rule, but I would question whether sleeping in a tent (or camper van) could legitimately be construed to be "outdoor exercise", or anything else that's allowed as an exception. Maybe "moving home" as allowed under Section 15(2)(l)??!
I note that Section 15(2)(z) allows an exception to "feed or care for an animal, including obtaining veterinary services". Am I correct in recalling that that was the reason given by the previous Chief Medical Officer of Scotland for her trips to Fife in April this year?
Posted 4 years ago # -
@ejstubbs - there is quite a bit of detail on the Ramblers site about the processes & requirements that apply to their group walks at present. None of it rocket science but required & enforceable through an accountable, organised structure, which is the kind of thing Governments like https://www.ramblers.org.uk/volunteer-zone/coronavirus/volunteering.aspx
Posted 4 years ago # -
@ejstubbs, I would imagine that technically you could camp within the city council boundary, which encompasses at least part of the Pentlands, if I'm not mistaken?
Whether that is in the spirit of the regulations is quite another matter...
Sleeping/camping certainly not exercise. But then again, is coarse angling exercise? I'd say not, but I think it's allowed (as long as you have a permit, etc.).
Posted 4 years ago # -
What I don't understand from this conversation is why you would want to go into an area with more disease and potentially suffer a mechanical or worse and put yourself at risk.
I don't think any of the council areas are small enough that even if you live on a boundary that you couldn't point your bike in a different direction and be able to stay in your area for your prescribed excercise.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Certainly true that a Edinburgh council boundary ride would be a decent distance, especially if you did the waterfront too.
EDIT:- Works out at around a 50 mile loop, which is fine for a day ride at this time of year.
Posted 4 years ago # -
You can get creative - I did a 200 mile audax in the summer and was never more than 4.5 miles from the house.
I’ve been perusing both scot and Uk Covid regs and can’t for the life of me figure out if it’s ok to stay overnight in a hotel to pick up my son from uni down south. Decided it was a stupid idea anyway and will do a long there and back with mrs nobrakes without staying over anywhere.
Posted 4 years ago # -
What I don't understand from this conversation is why you would want to go into an area with more disease and potentially suffer a mechanical or worse and put yourself at risk.
Because the chances of having a mechanical are very small, and the chance of you catching the virus are a consequence is also small. Add into that the difference between Edinburgh’s & West Lothian’s infection rates isn’t massive in terms of numbers of people on the ground and then consider how many more people you‘d meet staying in a large urban area, you might come to the conclusion that riding a bike solo around the countryside of the Lothians arguably presents no difference at all in terms of risk.
EDIT According to the Zoe app there are estimated be be about 2500 cases in West Lothian vs 4600 in EdinburghPosted 4 years ago # -
"chances are small"
I'd rather you stayed in your large urban areas with all your disease, instead of bringing it with you into my nice rural area with little disease, ta (Fife, not W. Lothian but I see the Strava runs). Same goes for the Sunday drivers.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Small as in close to non existent
Posted 4 years ago # -
Indeed, but not impossible. My wife can't go into W. Lothian, even just to Dalmeny to have socially distanced conversation with her parents, but folks want to ride their bikes into neighbouring areas for no reason. Just stay in your area like everyone else.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@Baldcyclist, I hear what you're saying, I tend to agree that folk should not stray far from their local area to help stop the spread of the virus.
I hate to break this to you, but the infection rate (per 100k people) in Fife is much higher than in Edinburgh currently. There are in fact more cases in Fife currently. So, on average at least, Fifers coming into Edinburgh pose more of a risk to Edinburghers than Edinburgh folk heading into Fife present to those in the Kingdom. The infection rate in West Lothian is even higher than in Fife, nearly double that in Edinburgh. As for Lanarkshire, well let's just say you won't be catching me heading out there given the current infection rate is three times that in Edinburgh.
Posted 4 years ago # -
I saw a large group of possible Ramblers on the Roslin cycle path today. Must have been around 20, all of a high covid risk age group
Posted 4 years ago # -
It's odd that the Russian Oxford vaccine is 92% effective, but the UK Oxford vaccine is only 70% effective...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55040635
(and actually if they did make it better it's only sporting they tell us what they did...)
Posted 4 years ago # -
"the figure may be as high as 90% by tweaking the dose."
Maybe traditional Russian generosity?
Or maybe the % effectiveness depends on a lot of variables, and all these figures are, to some extent, educated guesses?
Posted 4 years ago # -
“
“With some exceptions, governments have made great efforts to put the wellbeing of their people first, acting decisively to protect health and to save lives,” the pope said.
However, he added that some had put the economy before public health. “Those governments have mortgaged their people,” he said.
“
Posted 4 years ago # -
Midlothian not going down a tier after all. Disappointing.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Not that surprising when you see the latest numbers from there: 98 cases per 100,000 people in last week's figures. That's higher than Edinburgh's (83). East Lothian's was 57. Does make one wonder why Midlothian's numbers seem to have shot up in just a week - they were below Edinburgh's and closer to East Lothian's last week.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Apparently, volunteers are being asked for to administer injections...
Posted 4 years ago # -
Apparently, volunteers are being asked for to administer injections...
University staff for students as well apparently
Posted 4 years ago #
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