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Do we need a coronavirus thread?

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  1. ejstubbs
    Member

    @fimm: my friend who lives a very near Hillend but a few hundred meters into Midlothian can't climb Caerketton (in Edinburgh)

    I'm not sure that's an accurate interpretation of the regulations, or the latest guidance as posted by chdot above. AFAICS there's nothing in either which restricts where your exercise could take you, so long as you end up back where you started. And as you said yourself further up: "once you have started exercising you can go as far as you like". In that respect AIUI the regulations and guidance are unchanged from what they were under the Level 3 restrictions, under which at least one regular CCE poster resident in Balerno (Edinburgh) has reported multiple outings by bike along the A70 in to West Lothian and back - which IMO were entirely legitimate.

    My understanding is that your friend near Hillend could do any of the following while remaining compliant with the regulations & the specific guidance about exercising:
    1) Drive to Castlelaw (which is in Midlothian anyway) and walk in to Caerketton from there, so long as they returned to Castlelaw;
    2) Drive to Old Swanston, which is in Edinburgh but less than two miles by road from the Midlothian/Edinburgh boundary, and go up and down Caerketton from there;
    3) Walk from their home to Hillend, go up Caerketton and walk back out to home via a different route e.g. via Boghall Farm (though the walk back along the A702 in that case probably wouldn't be the highlight of the outing).

    That said, one or more of the above might be regarded as being against the spirit of the broader i.e. non-exercise-specific guidance which states: "Although you can leave home for these [examples of reasonable excuses], you should stay as close to home as possible."

    I am, though, entirely happy to be corrected if my current understanding of the rules is demonstrably flawed/out of date.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. fimm
    Member

    @ejstubbs I agree with you, but others up thread do not (if my understanding of comments is correct):

    That said, one or more of the above might be regarded as being against the spirit of the broader i.e. non-exercise-specific guidance which states: "Although you can leave home for these [examples of reasonable excuses], you should stay as close to home as possible.

    Eg Bax' comments on dog walkers and Munro baggers (I belong to the latter category, and did go and climb Munros last summer when the restrictions were relaxed and we were allowed to. I won't be driving anywhere to exercise this month, however.)

    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. minus six
    Member

    you should stay as close to home as possible

    the problem with this guidance is that it lacks pertinent examples of what should be regarded as possible or acceptable

    sticking with the spirit of it, i could exercise solely by skipping without leaving my yard, and undertaking all essential shopping at the nearest overpriced local corner shop for the forseeable future. and no one other than key workers need ever step foot into their motor car.

    without this clarification.. well, if fido expects to be walked up the pentlands, then up the pentlands in the motor we shall go, and maybe do some shopping at the gyle later on

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. amir
    Member

    From NS's statement on Monday: "It is important for physical and mental health that we can get outdoors for fresh air and exercise as much as possible."

    The mental health benefit of getting out shouldn't be forgotten. Whilst some can get full benefit from exercise alone, even indoors on a trainer, other may require a good dose of nature.

    I do agree that risk should be taken into account to a reasonable degree and it would be nice to see a lot less traffic. On today's cycle ride up the gritted A road to Howgate, there was a surprising number of essential car journeys, though this petered out somewhat after Rosewell.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. crowriver
    Member

    @Baldcyclist,

    "The rule is designed for people who live in cities drive motor vehicles to be able to get into the countryside for some fresh air"

    FTFY.

    Can't see anyone using public transport to get out into the countryside, unless they have some kind of invulnerability device which stops them from being infected in enclosed spaces shared with strangers. Likewise, only hardy enthusiasts will be cycling five miles from their local council area to then undertake further exercise (whether cycling, rambling, running on the spot, etc.).

    So like many an amendment to restrictions, this is effectively a driver's Get Out Of Jail Free card to do whatever the hell they like.

    I was struck by the media coverage over New Year about folk driving to the Brecon Beacons from London for "exercise and fresh air". The Beebly reporter then proceeded to interview one half of a young Welsh couple who, while criticising English interlopers, proceeded to justify their presence on the hill by stating it was only "an hour's drive" from home. So that's fine then.

    I envisage there have been, and will continue to be, Scottish equivalents not only of the London hillwalkers heading to Wales, but also the "locals" driving for an hour or more to reach their "exercise and fresh air".

    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. gembo
    Member

    To be fair @crowriver, an hour’s drive in Wales could be five miles given how windy the roads are and the fact that North Wales at least is covered in speed cameras.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. crowriver
    Member

    Hyper local traffic report.

    Easter Road quieter than usual, but still quite busy. Some of this is buses and general traffic diverted from the tram works on Leith Walk. Some of it though was PHCs cruising about, and young guys in "hot rods" smoking ganja* and blasting out heavy bass lines from their stereos while gunning engines at a green light.

    Clearly these latter are all exhausted key workers returning after 12 hour shifts, and not at all bored drivists hanging out with their mates.

    * - the smoke emanating from their open windows had that distinctive aroma of not-tobacco.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  8. crowriver
    Member

    @gembo, I have relatives who live in mid-Wales. The country roads are very narrow and windy, this is true. One aunt used to live in a farmhouse reached via picturesque hedge lined single track roads. From Caersws station (which is eight miles away) it was 25 minutes maximum by car, not an hour. Even by bicycle reckon it would be under an hour, steep wee hills and all. Indeed, from that farmhouse to the border town of Shrewsbury is just over an hour's drive, a distance of nearly 50 miles.

    Anyone driving an hour to get to a hill has travelled several multiples of five miles, possibly six or ten times that. Unless they got stuck in the Mother Of All Traffic Jams on Easter Road or similar.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

  10. LaidBack
    Member

    Media have been giving some space to claims that FM isn't doing her job. Her statement was 95 mins with answers to the media. PM did 8 mins.

    This morning Radio Scot was going to have Iain Gray on claiming that there is no transparency on how ScotGov arrives at decisions. Turns out a circular was sent out yesterday.

    Time flies though. Was only last week that Richard Leonard was representing the publican trade. From Times only last Wednesday 30th Dec.


    The Scottish Labour leader has accused Nicola Sturgeon of imposing "1920s-style prohibition" on the country to satisfy her "Puritan" values.

    Richard Leonard said there was no evidence that socialising in pubs drove the rise in Corona virus cases and that the "draconian" decision to close them was driven by the first minister's "authoritarian SNP nationalism".

    RL is a decent enough guy and did support the pro EU legislation that went through in Holyrood last week (not reported much). This keeps Scottish standards in line with a big trading period.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  11. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    "There is countryside outside of [Edinburgh], but this is not a place for enjoying the contrast with the city but purely practical grounds of exercise"

    Name the book (I've changed the city)

    Posted 4 years ago #
  12. minus six
    Member

    was it The Fall of Kelvin Walker

    Posted 4 years ago #
  13. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Fraid not bax

    Posted 4 years ago #
  14. gembo
    Member

    @crowriver I take back my remark. I meant Wells in Somerset. certainly takes an hour to get from there to Bath railway station and you have to get out the car to run for your train. Though that is 16 miles.

    I did once walk from Wells to Priddy to a pub that had actual bar billiards. Was pretty.

    Met a South African Called Atholl. He was partner of the daughter of a law lord.

    Anyway it is pretty much straight up hill from Wells to Priddy, if you go over the fields. We were quite exerted by the walk and Atholl could see this. Making conversation he said Where have you come from today. We said Wells. He said You have walked from Wales? (Wells/Wales sound same if you say them in South African accent).

    Posted 4 years ago #
  15. gembo
    Member

    @bax, after Lanark, old Al managed to offload all sorts of stuff he had in the cupboard.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  16. amir
    Member

    @crowriver as I come from that area, I can vouch for that. It's pretty tough cycling round there as well (but lovely).

    Folk in Welsh valleys leading in to England find the restrictions tough. Also can lead to inadvertent downsides. For example, if instead of shopping in the more local English town, people can only go to the nearest Welsh town, which also has far higher covid levels, well you can see what would hapoen

    Posted 4 years ago #
  17. crowriver
    Member

    Can't recall if anyone posted this, but here is the Official Guidance from ScotGov web site (my italics). So, we can legally go for a walk or cycle with our 11-year old, but cannot bring the 15-year old unless one of the parents stays behind... Can't see many families sticking to those rules, especially those who like to all pile in the motor to go somewhere on the weekend.

    ---

    local outdoor informal exercise such as walking, cycling, golf, or running (in groups of up to 2 people, plus any children under 12, from no more than 2 households) that starts and finishes at the same place (which can be up to 5 miles from the boundary of your local authority area). The number of periods of exercise are not limited.

    ---

    https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-travel-and-transport/

    Posted 4 years ago #
  18. chdot
    Admin

    Leak of November lockdown plan linked to 'surge in new infections'

    People in all age groups up to 60 rushed to socialise before the shutdown in England, say researchers

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jan/06/leak-of-november-covid-lockdown-plan-linked-to-surge-in-new-infections-say-researchers

    Posted 4 years ago #
  19. amir
    Member

    Sounds like Italy all over again. Does BJ never learn?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  20. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Nicola Sturgeon coronavirus briefing: No lunchtime update from First Minister

    Shockaroonie. Numbers must be dreadful

    Posted 4 years ago #
  21. SRD
    Moderator

    eek. hope she's okay...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  22. chdot
    Admin

    Despite warnings from the First Minister that panic buying is not necessary, with more than enough stock to go around, many customers have been spotted loading up on items such as toilet roll, milk and soap.

    https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-shops-lockdown-panic-buying-19567843

    Posted 4 years ago #
  23. LaidBack
    Member

    @SRD - FM is fine @MB Figures are not good

    I see PM reckons Scotland couldn't have got hold of vaccine without being in the union.

    But then as a country with control of our borders and CV policies would have maybe had less need. The first lockdown was late as the four nations had to go 'in lockstep'.
    I think co-operation with a devolved England is always going to be there despite the politics at moment.
    As far as money we are borrowing - that is our own money backed up by the human and natural resources of Scotland.

    The PM may think playing the 'Scotland is a basket case, too wee and stupid etc' card will get nods of agreement from his media chums (two new right wing channels on way of course). His Scottish leader though has recently warned him that such comments do not increase Tory votes here.

    I expect @jss will have something to say - appreciate forum can exchange views without animosity.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  24. ejstubbs
    Member

    @crowriver: Thanks for posting that. During the walk that my wife and I took earlier today we passed a number of other people pedestrianising for exercise. Most were in groups of only two, and a few were exercising alone, but there were a few groups of three adults. I began to wonder whether the rules only talked about "meeting up" - so a household of three adults, for example, could exercise together - but if it actually sets a limit on the number who can take exercise together (as I had thought it did) then the message is clearly either not getting through to, or being ignored by, some.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  25. gembo
    Member

    No time limit on the exercise? So long as abides by rules on contact? Cycling Scotland advising not to cause yourself any injury

    Posted 4 years ago #
  26. slowcoach
    Member

    @laidback "The first lockdown was late as the four nations had to go 'in lockstep'." Did the Scottish Govt need permission from UK Govt to introduce restrictions?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  27. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    The 'lockstep', such as it was, was the furlough scheme. No money, no lock down.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  28. ejstubbs
    Member

    @chdot: I'm a bit doubtful regarding the accuracy of that Edinburghlive report about panic buying. I was in Longston Sainsbury's on the morning of Tuesday (the day that story is datelined) and I didn't see any significant shortages of anything. The fresh meat & fish cabinets were noticeably depleted but that's normal for Sainsbury's after an extended public holiday period; I was still able to get what I needed (and there was plenty in Morrisons when I popped in there on my way home, to pick up the odd few items that Sainsbury's don't/didn't on that occasion have). There was plenty of milk when I was there, though oddly only in 1 pint or 4 pint cartons, no 2 pint ones (in that respect Morrisons was the same), and (for a change) plenty of eggs. No problems getting bread flour or (for the first time in a month or two) yeast, which both disappeared from the shelves during the last lockdown hoarding spree.

    I certainly didn't see hordes of shoppers with trolleys piled high. There was no queue to get in to the shop at 9:30 when I arrived and I didn't have to queue for a checkout. There were two or three folks who might have been queuing to get in when I left, but equally they might have been hanging around aimlessly for a totally different reason - I didn't study their behaviour more closely to make sure either way.

    Sainsbury's do seem to have intermittent 'hiccups' in their stock control and I get the impression that their systems aren't very resilient. I am quite used to them having low/no stocks of unexpected items for no readily apparent reason. It wouldn't surprise me if what Edinburghlive saw on Tuesday was due to a combination of that, restocking backlogs after the New Year break, and customers restocking after not having done any significant grocery shopping since before Christmas.

    Finally, and perhaps more to the point than any of my ramblings above, I've not seen reports of widespread panic buying in any other reputable media sources, nor have I seen any word from the supermarkets in the last few days that they're restricting quantities that people can buy.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  29. jss
    Member

    Suppose I need to take the laidback bate!
    Galling to many ,but our “precious union” seems to working better in this crisis than the other precious EU union- 1.3 million vaccinations in UK, 516 in France , none in Holland.
    Rapid generous sharing of borrowed funds -never enough of course
    Do wonder how a newly Indy Scotland could have borrowed so much-and in what currency
    Against oil reserves that cost more to extract than they will sell for at the moment, against strength of our financial services / banking sector - many of whom might have flitted - and “good riddance “ according SNP development convened Chris Hanson. The whisky industry?Or would we be in EU and they would be helping us out
    Perhaps we wouldn’t need to as we would have locked down in January or February - but don’t recall hearing anyone advocating this. Or the virus would have respected a hard border?
    All best discussed whilst cycling on the open road-exchanges with fellow cyclists more friendly and easygoing- unless of course they overtake you in which case mild pedal rage might ensue

    Posted 4 years ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    “Do wonder how a newly Indy Scotland could have borrowed so much-and in what currency
    Against oil reserves“

    Which also raises the question of what (if anything) UKGov borrows against.

    Its good name?

    A future return to the economy as usual?

    The point of any Indy Scotland is that it COULD manage its resources (natural & people) differently (and better). (In theory!)

    So many unknowns and unknowables.

    It’s hard to believe that many people think that ‘the UK’ (inc Scotland - and perhaps NI...) is actually doing anything particularly well (not just Covid).

    Posted 4 years ago #

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