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Do we need a coronavirus thread?

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  1. ejstubbs
    Member

    @crowriver: according to Gogol Maps, it's 7,4 miles from Ashby-de-la-Zouch to Foremark Reservoir by road

    Setting aside for the moment the fact that this discussion is purely theoretical since the parties concerned were subject to English law, not Scottish, I specifically said in my post that the reservoir is 5.2 miles from the border between North West Leicestershire and South Derbyshire. And I said that because the Scottish regulations (which, per my post above, are still in effect) restrict such trips to "within 5 miles of such local government area" not five miles from where the journey started.

    I do wonder whether the widespread publicity given to this case will encourage all manner of "enthusiastic exercisers" to chance their arms on driving distances to go for a walk.

    In Scotland, as things stand at the moment, it's legal to do so within the five mile rule, no arm chancing required. As for driving separately, which you also criticised: current guidance is to avoid travelling in the same car as someone who is not from your own household if possible.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  2. crowriver
    Member

    @ejstubbs, perhaps we are talking at cross purposes.

    It is true that I mentioned their trip would be legal here, and you've pointed out they were 0.2 miles over the legally permitted distance beyond their LA boundary. I suspect Police Scotland's finest would let them away with that.

    My point regarding the 7.4 miles was the reporting of the widely publicised trip (presumably the result of the two friends contacting the media) has stated they only travelled 5 miles, when in fact it's over 7 miles. Also, much has been made of the lack of any definition of "local" in the English regulations, but my point again (and the reason why I criticised driving to go for a wee walk) is that driving a 15 mile round trip is not "stay at home". In my view the discussion could perhaps be more about what is "reasonable excuse": is driving 15 miles to a reservoir and back "reasonable" during lockdown? Personally, I'd say no it is not. I'm sure many drivers of the "it's only 20 minutes away" variety would disagree.

    As for driving separately being in line with official guidance, yes of course that is the case. I find this trip to be ludicrously profligate though: 30 miles' worth of fuel and resulting pollution, just to go for a wee walk while ensuring social distancing. Adding two vehicles to minor roads (quickest route is via 'B' road) thus increasing the risks of collisions, etc. One of the reasons why folk are supposed to stay at home is not just about stopping viral spread, but also lessening the burden on emergency services and NHS from road collisions, etc.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  3. neddie
    Member

    My take on the Derbyshire pair is that they are “social media darlings” and were looking for a spot of publicity. They probably called the police on themselves, knowing they’d be all over the papers / BBC.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  4. gembo
    Member

    @neddie yes they are on front of various red tops today in their matching white. Jumpers. They definitely grassed themselves.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  5. crowriver
    Member

    Yes, I noted they were all over the "tabloids" but declined to repeat the stories here. "the Derbyshire pair" are from Leicestershire, but visited Derbyshire. Apparently one of them owns/runs a beauty parlour in Ashby-de-la-Zouch.

    P.S.:- 30 miles' worth of driving could produce 12.3kg of CO2, plus the usual local pollution from VOCs, Nox and particulates. It's all sorts of wrong, even if it might possibly be legal, though in England at least that latter is very much in doubt.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  6. crowriver
    Member

    Reading between the lines here the pair of friends may have given PC Copper a bit of lip into the bargain, which is maybe why they were "read their rights" and fined.....note this account gets the distance right, whereas other outlets persist with the "five miles" fib.

    "They thought it was a joke to begin with..." but when they discovered it wasn't they ran to the papers.

    https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/women-fined-200-over-eight-4870157

    OTOH there's a bit more detail here which makes me slightly more sympathetic to their plight (but not for rushing to the media).

    Posted 4 years ago #

  7. Morningsider
    Member

    Yeah - I did wonder how the story would have been reported if it had been a couple of young black guys going out for a run instead.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  8. crowriver
    Member

    I note that a self-publicising lawyer and the local Conservative MP both weighed in with their views on this important matter. The Thunderer and Torygraph piled on too.

    Tough being a Derbyshire police constable just now, I'd imagine.

    EDIT - Interviewed LIVE on Sky news, it would appear. That fine money bought a lot of free publicity.

    https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=743699249882306

    This pair are going to be Z list slebs on some reality TV show soon, aren't they?

    Posted 4 years ago #

  9. gembo
    Member

    There was a photo of them walking spaced two metres apart promoting Starbucks unrecyclable cups. Who took the photo. And if Neil Armstrong was first man on the moon who took his photo?

    Posted 4 years ago #

  10. crowriver
    Member

    Not seeing much media furore about this story mind you.

    ---

    Covid-19: Hackney gym owners fined for breaching rules

    The owners of a London gym have been fined for breaching Covid-19 rules by remaining open during lockdown. Police were called to the fitness centre in Stean Street, Hackney, on Friday to reports of a regulation breach. Three people were found inside the gym at 09:30 GMT. The owners were given a £1,000 fixed penalty notice.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55601293

    ---

    Meanwhile, in related news, grimness abounds.

    ---

    Covid: UK reports more than 80,000 deaths

    More than 80,000 people have died in the UK within 28 days of a positive Covid test since the start of the pandemic, official figures have shown. A further 1,035 deaths in the UK were reported on Saturday, taking the total by that measure to 80,868. The number of daily cases of people who tested positive for coronavirus increased by 59,937.

    Only the US, Brazil, India and Mexico have recorded more Covid deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University. It is the fourth day in a row that the UK has reported more than 1,000 daily deaths.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55605173

    Posted 4 years ago #

  11. chdot
    Admin

    Helpful?

    “

    The NHS could vaccinate the entire population in five days but is being hampered by bureaucracy, a leading immunologist has claimed.

    “

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/09/nhs-vaccinate-uk-covid-five-days-oxford-professor

    Posted 4 years ago #

  12. chdot
    Admin

    “

    This view was backed by Mark Woolhouse, professor of infectious disease epidemiology at Edinburgh University. “This epidemic would have unfolded very differently and in a much happier way if we had accepted, back in February, that we were in this for the long term,” he said. “However, the view that it was a short-term problem prevailed.

    “

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/10/plan-for-the-future-now-or-covid-will-last-for-years-uk-scientists-warn

    Posted 4 years ago #

  13. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    The NHS could vaccinate the entire population in five days but is being hampered by bureaucracy, a leading immunologist has claimed.

    I doubt that. I got vaccinated at Bonnyrigg Community Hospital last Thursday. I think there were about ten nurses and I'd say they were managing about one person every two or three minutes in total. The real bottleneck was lack of parking spaces.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  14. crowriver
    Member

    From chdot's link:

    “In March, we are still going to be under restrictions which will have to be imposed for months after that. What happens in autumn will depend on our success in keeping the virus down over the summer,” she said.

    ---

    No big surprise there.

    Flu vaccinations last year took a couple of months to roll out to over 65s and vulnerable groups, primary school kids, plus plenty of availability in local pharmacies for those that wanted to pay.

    We need something similar for the cheaper Covid vaccines (like AstraZeneca and Sputnik V) then we could vaccinate most people over maybe six months or so: two shots so will take longer.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  15. wingpig
    Member

    My sister already helps with primary school 'flu nostril-snort non-jab things and was supposed to be going on an intramuscular injection course to let her be a Covid vaccinator. Shall ask her what else is involved - presumably stuff like sharps discipline and general associated safety as well as the physical act of syringe insertion.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  16. crowriver
    Member

    Meanwhile, in Wales...

    ---

    Covid: Warnings 'blatantly ignored' as cars turned away

    People are "blatantly" ignoring rules on lockdown restrictions despite repeated warnings, police have said. More than 100 cars had been turned away from Moel Famau on the Flintshire border by Saturday lunchtime, with some driving past "road closed" signs. In Snowdonia, Gwynedd, a warden said a group from Leicester would have "probably ignored our advice" if police had not arrived and told them to leave.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55604382

    Posted 4 years ago #

  17. minus six
    Member

    i'd like the NHS to provide antibody tests so an informed decision can be made thereafter on whether to participate in these vaccine trials

    that'll not be on offer though.. by the end of the year they'll be handing out white feathers if you haven't signed up

    Posted 4 years ago #

  18. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    Bax, this isn't a vaccine trial.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  19. CocoShepherd
    Member

    @cyclingmollie

    Bax has a point. It's not known (publicly at least) how safe or effective the vaccines are in those who have already been infected. So in a sense those who have been infected and who are vaccinated would essentially be participating in a trial.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  20. CocoShepherd
    Member

    Unfortunately for you Bax your antibodies have probably long gone so an antibody test would almost certainly be negative, whether you were infected last spring or not. They only last a few months before your immune system stops making them and commits them to memory

    Posted 4 years ago #

  21. minus six
    Member

    @cocoshep

    aye vaccination could trigger a hypersensitive response second time around, as demonstrated in SARS / MERS studies

    so whats different this time, and where is the detailed info to back it up ?

    i'm not saying it hasn't been considered, but suddenly there are three vaccines available in the uk that have all been declared safe for use across all groups

    no need to ask questions, just get the jab and trust the boffins

    yet the vaccine manufacturers have all negotiated strict no liability legal waivers

    some caution required meantime, if you've already had the virus

    Posted 4 years ago #

  22. CocoShepherd
    Member

    @bax If there's one person in the world that you can trust with your health it's Matt Hancock

    Posted 4 years ago #

  23. Morningsider
    Member

    Interesting. Medicine really not my thing. How long would it take for the adverse reaction you mention to appear in vaccinated individuals who had perviously been infected? Just wondering that with 1.5m people already vaccinated, and modelling showing 20% of people may already have been infected, would this quickly become obvious?

    Posted 4 years ago #

  24. minus six
    Member

    @morningsider

    you'd think it would 'quickly' become apparent in a percentage of health care workers currently being vaccinated

    my uneducated layman guess is 28-35 days post-vax

    but if so, how quickly might that become publicly acknowledged ?

    you wouldn't want to spook the horses

    Posted 4 years ago #

  25. Morningsider
    Member

    @bax - thanks. I should probably also admit to not knowing what a "hypersensitive response" is.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  26. minus six
    Member

    anything from mild allergic reaction to anaphylactic shock and at the morbid end of the spectrum, cytokine storm, lung lesions etc

    Posted 4 years ago #

  27. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/11/test-and-trace-needs-radical-overhaul-to-prevent-further-covid-surges-in-england-experts

    Posted 4 years ago #

  28. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus-scotland-jeane-freeman-not-ruling-out-12-week-lockdown-urged-public-health-expert-3091585

    Posted 4 years ago #

  29. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Celtic confirm Neil Lennon and 13 players to self-isolate after Christopher Jullien tests positive for Covid-19 on return from Dubai

    “

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/celtic-confirm-neil-lennon-and-13-players-self-isolate-after-christopher-jullien-tests-positive-covid-19-return-dubai-3091883

    Posted 4 years ago #

  30. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jan/11/passengers-at-heathrow-down-by-73-in-2020-due-to-covid

    So, still 1/4 flying?

    Posted 4 years ago #

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