https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/31/world/covid-france-lockdown.html
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need a coronavirus thread?
(5710 posts)-
Posted 4 years ago #
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Vaccine passports are un-British says Sir Keir Starmer. (c) Daily Mail
'Un-British' is the new 'expelliarmus' in the Harry Potteresque political landscape?
Posted 4 years ago # -
@Laidback - I know what you mean, but I think it is important that Labour don't let the Tories own Britishness/patriotism. Feeling pride in your country isn't inherently right wing. Patriotism needn't be expressed through flag-waving jingoism. Politics is as much the business of emotion as it is policy and Labour seem to have lost that emotional connection with many voters. Attempts to deal with this have been pretty ham-fisted so far, but they really just have to keep going as they will never regain power without that connection - and patriotism is part of that.
The SNP has been super successful using just this approach - not flags, but in convincing voters that they understand what it is to be Scottish. I see the main danger to the SNP being that it loses this connection, probably by tying itself up in arcane policy disputes and internal character conflicts. Not that I think this is imminent, but I could see it happening at some point.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@morningsider - agree that this isn't aimed at me or the devolved nations.
He could just have said the vaccine passport is un-workable. Important though for politicians in south to think how that would appear in the papers reviewed by broadcast media. 'Un-British' sounds strangely old fashioned to me - like 'it's not cricket'. Equivalent would be NS saying that's not the way we do things here in Scotland? Un-Scottish is implication but suggests exclusion of people identifying themselves as British foremost (minority now I think in all quadrants of UK).
Watching Channel 4 from Redcar. People there still like BJ - they see him as a strong leader and think Sir Keir is still weak. Headlines like that in DM are important to get these voters onside for Labour.Posted 4 years ago # -
@Laidback - yes, does sound a bit old-fashioned. However, I think it is quite a strong argument to make. Outside of war time, the British state (in whatever guise) has not normally required "papers" for internal travel or to access public or private goods or services. Mandating the use of such "papers" is a significant extension in the power of the state over the individual. You could call the proposal many things, but I think "un-British" has quite a powerful resonance. A call to the fundamental belief in individual liberty, rather than some technocratic argument about the likely balls-up that the UK Government would make of any such scheme.
Is a belief in individual liberty specifically British? No. Is it something British people (however you want to define that) are likely to hold? I would say, yes.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Ads from Scottish Government on Twitter today:
"You can now travel within your local authority area for non-essential reasons. But please stay local to stop the spread."
I hate to break this to you, Scottish Government but folk have been doing this ever since the start of the 'Levels' system last year. Especially in their cars. But thanks anyway.
Posted 4 years ago # -
I'm not sure how well the stay local message has been followed, given how much traffic I've seen crossing county borders at weekends (from my bike)
Posted 4 years ago # -
In this context is our local authority Edinburgh?
I ask because I have also heard reference to ‘Lothians’ (as in nhs Lothians).
And suggestions that we would all throng to the East Lothian beaches.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@amir, obvs all key workers, essential shopping and travelling no more than five miles outwith council boundary for essential exercise.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@SRD, according to Beebly British state-sponsored media:
'People have been told to "stay local" and to remain within their local authority boundaries for the next three weeks.'
Posted 4 years ago # -
@SRD Edinburgh is our local authority. NHS Lothian is our health board.
West Lothian Clarion sticking to this and indeed Fietsclub Balerno who have called several city routes that I have not fancied.
Livingston C.C maybe spotted a group crossing into a south Lanarks. Different interpretation
Posted 4 years ago # -
@SRD: It is the Edinburgh City Council area. NHS Lothian is a health board*, not a local authority. So in terms of travel restrictions: with respect to location nothing has changed, only the reason you are allowed to travel.
The Public Health Scotland daily dashboard allows you to look at coronavirus data at both the local authority and the health board level. They are quite clearly separate things.
The Scottish Government's timetable for easing restrictions is currently forecasting that travel within all of mainland Scotland will be permitted from 26th April but with the significant caveat "subject to other restrictions that remain in place". AIUI they plan to return to the protection levels system which was in place at the back end of last year, which would seem likely to mean that, although there won't be country-wide travel restrictions, there will still be travel restrictions based on each local authority's protection level. At Edinburgh's current 7 day case rate per 100,000 of around 53 the city would be at protection level 3, meaning that travel restrictions would be basically the same after the 26th as before i.e. no travel outside the LA area.
* People may be getting confused with the first iteration of the protection levels system, which was based on NHS health board areas. The system may actually have been called something else at the time, I can't remember. It was certainly called 'protection levels' when travel restrictions were tightened to local authority level rather than NHS board.
Posted 4 years ago # -
That all makes sense/correlates with what I thought. Thanks!
Posted 4 years ago # -
Rammed up at Harlaw and at Thriepmuir. Even at 9am Nothing at Listonshiels.
All within Edinburgh although the Dean Burn to the west of Listonshiels is the border.
Posted 4 years ago # -
So, in short, arbitrary rules/borders can be counterproductive...
Posted 4 years ago # -
Estate car going through Grassmarket with kayaks and bicycles on roof. Rear packed with camping equipment as if going on long journey.
Table out on Meadows with 10 people round it. Some drunken underagers. People at tables of old town pub (closed but using the locale).
As @crowriver says - people always one level ahead in behaviour.Posted 4 years ago # -
Re the PHS daily dashboard, it also gives case numbers at neighbourhood level. Neighbourhoods cover in the order of 2.5k people. Some places are scarily high still, eg around Livingston, and have been for a while. Others have been near zero. I heard the dashboard may not be updated over the Easter long weekend.
Posted 4 years ago # -
‘ Rammed up at Harlaw and at Thriepmuir. Even at 9am Nothing at Listonshiels.’
S’funny, a couple of weeks ago I met a couple picking their way through the boglands at Little Vantage looking pretty disenchanted. They said they had only come to Little Vantage as Listonshiels was “rammed”. Not sure I have ever seen or can even conceive of LS being rammed
Posted 4 years ago # -
Listonshiels only has about three proper spaces, @murun what time of day as I think Listonshiels and Little Vantage all full and overspilling by lunchtime
Posted 4 years ago # -
@amir: Indeed. About two weeks ago, when West Lothian was looking like an absolute basket case and Edinburgh's overall 7 day rate took an uptick in to protection level 3 territory (over 50) I mentioned on here that the PHS dashboard showed that Wester Hailes/Sighthill/Calders were the clear 'hotspots' within the City of Edinburgh council area (a case of South West Edinburgh illegally in Motion?) They're less bad now, with the current five hotspots in Edinburgh being dotted more evenly around the outer suburbs (in geographic terms: in socioeconomic terms it's still somewhat skewed towards more deprived areas). In the city centre Tollcross is quite high.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Neighbour currently has three cars parked outside his house, only one of which is his. Neither of the others are regular visitors so I'm guessing they're not Edinburghers ('m pretty sure some of his family stay in East Lothian). One of them has been there overnight.
Might not be very 'neighbourly' to dob them in to (but then he generally isn't very neighbourly anyway). Quite likely the polis have plenty of other much worse regulation breakers to deal with this weekend.
Look like they're planning to party like it's April 26th. What would you do?
Posted 4 years ago # -
@gembo: Rammed up at Harlaw and at Thriepmuir.
Was that more rammed than usual for a non-working day? If so, what was stopping them from going there before? Surely not just the requirement to be taking exercise in order to have a reasonable excuse to travel?
Posted 4 years ago # -
“what was stopping them from going there before?“
Fair weather walkers(?)
Posted 4 years ago # -
From National twitter...
STIRLING Council has urged people to abide by coronavirus restrictions and stay local as a popular destination in the heart of the Trossachs saw a surge of visitors early this morning.
The car park at Ben A’an was close to capacity at 9.30am, prompting the council to plead with people to stay close to home.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@ejstubbs. Not more rammed than usual. Just rammed far earlier than usual. In the olden days if you got there before noon you could park. Now it is 9am
See also Ben A’an car park 9.30am today
Posted 4 years ago # -
Clouds of bottle-and-joint-sharing non-householders going past on their inebriant way to Leith Links.
Posted 4 years ago #
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