Is the gyle am option? The canal gets you close and Edinburgh park is basically traffic free at the moment as everyone is still WFH.
Alternatively you could reverse the West Edinburgh POP feeder ride route but it's a bit fiddler.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need a coronavirus thread?
(5710 posts)-
Posted 3 years ago #
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I went by Napier this morning a bit after 9, hoping I could ask if they would accept under 15s, but it wasn't there yet. Cones in front of the building on Colin shows where it will be.
If anyone else finds out, please could you let me know?!
Thanks!
Posted 3 years ago # -
The NHS Inform web site currently states: "Those aged 12 to 17 can attend a drop-in clinic for their first vaccine dose as long as the clinic is providing the Pfizer vaccine." The NHS Lothian vaccination clinics web page (which is linked from the NHS Inform web page) says: "Certain venues will offer drop-in clinics for 12-15 year olds from Monday 20 September; see each venue for details." None of the mobile drop-in clinics are listed as catering for under-16s except for the three-day session at the Fort starting this Friday. IIRC the Pfizer vaccine is the one which needs to be kept super-cold, so I wonder whether the mobile clinics (except for the one being deployed at the Fort) may not have the necessary cryogenic equipment?
All the local drop-in clinics, and the Gyle, are shown as having Pfizer available so it does look as if it's the mobile ones that can't "do" under-16s. However, if you find out otherwise I'm sure there are others who would appreciate you sharing that intelligence!
Posted 3 years ago # -
@SRD et. al. - Mini Twinspark and Micro Twinspark (although they are 15 and 14 respectively and at least as tall as me...need a name rethink! :-) ) tried to get vaccinated at Napier Merchiston and they're not doing under 16's.
Certainly I think the NHS Lothian could be clearer as I had looked at the page @ejstubbs refers to and it wasn't clear at all..... they've possibly changed it / refined it....
Posted 3 years ago # -
@twinspark Glad they tried!
after shouting a lot on twitter i was dm'd by someone who said they had asked a relative who was involved in vaccinating. they said that most sites had been doing the vulnerable 12-15s, so there ought to be someone at most sites who was able to do it.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Well my 12 year old and I cycled across Edinburgh to the Napier Merchiston campus. We were told by the person organising the queue that they were not doing 12-15 year olds until Friday. When I expressed dissatisfaction with this, they said it clearly stated on the web site that they were not doing so. I replied that it definitely did not say clearly they were not doing so. They then said we could go to another drop-in clinic. I replied that there were no clinics in Edinburgh open today apart from this one, the nearest alternative was in Midlothian. They said we can go to a mass vaccination centre. I replied this is at Ingleston, what about people who live in central Edinburgh who do not have a car. They said we can get the bus. I replied do they know how long the bus takes? They said we can get the tram. I replied do they know how far away the show ground is from the tram stop? And how hostile it is to walk there? I also pointed out that local clinics opening tomorrow were only open when children would be at school. I said it was a ridiculous situation and asked if I can make an official complaint. Go to the web site to complain, no facilities here.
This is highly unsatisfactory and effectively excludes large numbers of people from getting the vaccine. Essentially NHS Lothian are saying "Get a car or get to the back of the queue". A strange message for a supposed health board to be putting out.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I don't disagree that inconsistent information is irritating but I might gently suggest that haranguing admin staff/volunteers and adding to the growing levels of hassle that health workers are getting across the board probably isn't the most helpful way of going about trying to remedy it.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I did not harangue anyone. I was very clear that I knew it wasn't this person's fault or that of the workers on site.
However the replies given to my questions were definitely of the brush off variety, even though I'm sure the person thought they were being helpful. They were vaccinating people over 16 (mostly students by the looks of it), presumably with Pfizer for those under 30 years of age. So what was the impediment for 12-15 year olds other than a bureaucratic policy decision?
Just imagine if this was not about the age of the person trying to be vaccinated, but about their gender or ethnicity. And they were told to make a bus journey of over an hour each way, or walk over a mile from a tram stop in hostile walking conditions.
I have complained to NHS Lothian about this discriminatory policy and also written to my MSP.
Posted 3 years ago # -
You were probably brushed off because you were trying to treat a queue attendant like a spokesperson for the NHS Lothian vaccine distribution team.
At the start of the vaccine rollout - when it was very much a life or death thing for many - the attitude seemed to be generally 'just glad to get it at all' with some acceptance that such a large rollout was always going to be a bit rough and ready and prioritise pragmatism over dogmatic fairness.
I definitely get the vibe over the pandemic though that this attitude of gratitude and tolerance has given way to impatience and entitlement. This is probably typified by the implication that failing to make a vaccine universally available to given group within a week of medical approval is a complete catastrophe.
Hospitals are still at very high occupancy across the country, staff availability and morale is historically low, abuse is rising and the ambulance service is currently in such a state of crisis that the army have been drafted in. Perhaps having to wait until Friday isn't so bad - or at least not comparable to racism?
Posted 3 years ago # -
@jonty, you're presuming rather a lot about the encounter. It's not "impatience and entitlement" to question NHS Lothian's policies on getting to drop-in clinics. Asking questions of an NHS worker is not the same as "trying to treat a queue attendant like a spokesperson for the NHS Lothian vaccine distribution team."
Prior to travelling across the city, I had thought maybe we would need to wait until Friday. However it was unclear whether or not the bus at Napier would be treating 12-15 year olds. The information was clear that on Friday, at Fort Kinnaird, they will only be treating 12-15 year olds. Otherwise it was ambiguous.
Was the Napier bus clinic offering Pfizer? Presumably they were, if they were treating over-16s. So why not offer that vaccine to 12-15 year olds turning up to the drop-in clinic?
Whatever the operational rationale for closing down EICC yesterday, NHS Lothian have, in doing so and not offering any easily accessible alternative, effectively banished any 12-15 year olds whose parents don't have cars to the back of the queue.
I've no idea if you have children, but if you do, try rocking up to a drop-in clinic only to be told your child cannot be accepted for vaccination. And then be told to travel to Midlothian or Ingliston.
12-15 year olds being forced to wait until Friday (or miss their education in order to get vaccinated) is exclusionary, and this is a group who are expected to attend schools where they may be exposed to the virus. There have already been several cases at my daughter's school, including in her class.
The effect of forcing those without access to cars to wait is arguably discriminatory. In a similar way to having to push a button to cross, say the junction of Hanover Street and Princes Street, then waiting several minutes while people in motor cars are given first priority, is discriminatory.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I've no idea the specific reasons, obviously, but it occurs to me that there's plenty of reasons vaccinating children might be different from vaccinating adults. For a start there's likely to be staff training issues - a lot of training was skipped in the early days, but it's presumably getting to the point where not having child safety training might be a liability for staff and volunteers and possibly illegal. I'm not sure what the disclosure situation is either. Presumably there are also supply and capacity issues associated with the "start" of a new priority group and some sites (for example those near to a university) might choose to ensure continuity of provision to members of higher priority groups who still need jabs (and, realistically, have less access to transport than most parents). I imagine they're extremely keen to avoid the horror stories of multi hour waits that accompanied the opening of the Ingleston centre.
There's presumably practical flow issues around accommodating both children and parents and consent is completely different - I don't know whether parents need to be spoken to/sign something and presumably they need trained people on hand to speak to unaccompanied minors arriving against their parents' wishes. While jabs for kids has been on the cards for a while it has only just been approved and the timing is unfortunate, clashing as it did with the start of the flu jab season and the announcement of boosters, which are both probably higher medical priorities. So there are a lot of organisational complexities, and that's assuming that the people worrying about this don't need to worry about everything else going on at the moment.
But no - it's probably safer to assume that NHS Lothian is "racist" against cyclists in the vicinity of Craiglockhart.
Posted 3 years ago # -
We took ours to Ingliston today and were efficiently dealt with, including a consent discussion suitable for their age and reassurance throughout the process, which included a 15 minute observation period afterwards.
Posted 3 years ago # -
A friend of mine, who has a qualification in nursing, and with a warm, kind, personality, would be perfect at the job, tried to become a vaccinator. She found it very hard to apply, emails weren't answered; she did manage to get to the point of doing on-line training but then there would be no follow up. There seemed to be one person doing the recruiting. She gave up after several months.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Making vaccinations available on the first day to only those who have easy access to Ingliston, Haddington or Gorebridge is not a particularly inclusive public health strategy.
Those were the only options available in Lothians.
Maybe Ingliston is more pedestrian friendly from the bus stops, but it sure isn't fro the tram stop. Yes I know lot of people who think nothing of popping their kids in their cars and heading to Ingliston. But also many others for whom this is not a practical option.
This week some other options open up, but only during school hours.
I could take my 14yo to Fort Kinnaird or maybe the Gyle on Friday afternoon, if I did't have to work.
I'd like to think we could avoid snide comments about Craiglockhart and agree that this is less than inclusive?
Hopefully the further roll out includes options somewhere within the city. and appointments outwith school hours.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I mentioned Craiglockhart because I misunderstood and thought folk were talking about the Napier campus there, not just having a random dig - sorry if it came across that way. (I made that assumption cos I live nearby so would be rather counterproductive if I was!)
Really I just wanted to highlight that comparing small delays in vaccine provision to racism is totally unhelpful hyperbole. Spurious comparisons to racism pop up from time to time in bike activism and really set me off (as you can probably tell) - they're totally counterproductive and implicitly underplay the severity of genuine racism.
Hopefully by the time letters start hitting the floor, availability will have widened significantly. I'm surprised they aren't coming direct to the schools but I guess they felt like they could make faster progress by leaning on their existing network.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Is Ingliston not only accessible by Skylink airport buses which are phenomenally expensive? £4.50 adult single, £2 child unless you have a ridacard. Perhaps Lothian Buses are doing concessionary travel, though I have my doubts.
This stage really hasn't been well thought out.
Posted 3 years ago # -
@jonty, this is not the first time we've had a run in. You played the racism card, not me. Get off your high horse.
The NHS is the largest sector of the state apparatus in this country, by far. That they consistently show bias in favour of people who drive is a problem. If you can't see that, ithen you're helping to sustain that bias.
Oh and by the way - why was my earlier post removed? I'm not aware that it broke any forum rulers. And yet the reply is left up? Bit of a one-sided "debate" here.
If such capricious censorship continues, I'll probably be joining some of the other long-standing forum posters who have disappeared in recent months.
Posted 3 years ago # -
@Murun Buchstansangur: Is Ingliston not only accessible by Skylink airport buses which are phenomenally expensive? £4.50 adult single, £2 child unless you have a ridacard.
That does indeed seem to be the case (return fares are £7.50/£3.00). Could still be cheaper than a taxi, though, depending on how many kids you have in tow. The airport buses are now running to and from the Ingliston vaccination centre itself so it shouldn't be too much of a walk on arrival or departure.
The tram is only £1.80 adult, 90p child single to the P&R (£3.40/£1.80 return). But the recommended yellow walking route to the east entrance of the showground does not look at all inviting. It's roughly a mile, and starts with having to negotiate the junction on the north side of the A8 (I think there is a traffic-light controlled crossing but I've no idea what the cycle times are like) and then it seems to run alongside the access slip road from the eastbound A8.
The Trams 'Vaccination Centres by Public Transport' web page does say "Customers can interchange between tram and bus at Ingliston Park & Ride," but it doesn't say what the bus leg of the journey would cost. Common sense would suggest that it would be a sensible idea to let folks do that one-stop hop for free, but common sense doesn't seem to have been widely available during the planning of this operation.
Posted 3 years ago # -
You can use normal bus tickets on the "Skylink" buses (200, 300 and 400), as long as you get off before the actual airport, can't you?
"Citysingles, Citysmart cards, DAYtickets, LATEtickets and NIGHTtickets are not valid for any journey on Airlink and are not valid on Skylink journeys between Airport Hotels and Edinburgh Airport." https://www.lothianbuses.com/our-services/airport-buses/
Posted 3 years ago # -
@ejstubbs, "common sense doesn't seem to have been widely available during the planning of this operation."
Depends on the definition of "common sense" really. If it is analogous to "received wisdom" or "normative assumptions" then arguably the "common sense" position of "naturally everyone with kids will be jumping in their cars" has indeed prevailed.
Posted 3 years ago # -
@Frenchy: Ah yes, well spotted. It's actually much clearer on the route map near the top of that page, with the purple box marked "Airport Fare Zone" covering just the stops at the actual airport terminal.
The Skylink buses do take a fair wee while to get to the airport area, though, compared to the tram or the 100. This is primarily because there are many more stops on the 200, 300 and 400 routes than the premium-priced services - which is largely because they were created from pre-existing 'normal service' routes, and still serve the stops of the old routes. The 300 route is based on that of the old 35 bus - in fact I have an idea that may have been little more than a re-numbering of the old 35 route, with some newer buses on it. The 400 is based on the route of the old number 18 bus that I used to take to get to Sighthill back in the dark days when I was based there for work. That route had a very chequered history, even being canned altogether at one point IIRC before being reborn longer and shinier as the 400. The 200 is based on the old number 32 route.
Posted 3 years ago # -
@ejstubbs - bit of a history that route. Originally it was the 32, which did a full circle round the outskirts of Edinburgh. Took hours to get round. It was a bit confusing though as the destination board just said "Circle", so it was quite easy to get on a bus going the opposite direction from the one you wanted.
To fix this, it became the 32 and 52 - one number for clockwise and one for anti-clockwise. The route was so long though that delays became legendry, so the route was then chopped in half. The 18 served the southern half of the city - not sure about the north. The 18 was threatened with withdrawal several times. Eventually saved though, to become the 400.
If you are still awake after that - well done.
Posted 3 years ago # -
@ejstubbs, the 300 did indeed used to follow the route of the 35, but in their wisdom LB decided that residents of Easter Road and Old Town areas no longer required a direct connection to the airport. The 200 goes from Ocean Terminal via Ferry Road if I recall, but hardly convenient for people east of there. The tram at York Place is the nearest direct connection, and I suppose at some point that will be serving Leith Walk so would cover most residents' needs.
Posted 3 years ago # -
@Morningsider, was it not the 1 and the 6 that did the circle route at one time? One went clockwise, the other anti-clockwise. Or 1 and 35? I forget now, but I did in fact travel all around Edinburgh, I think on the 1, in the early/mid-1990s at some point. It was an "alternative excursion" for fair numbers of (mostly local) young adults at the time: cheaper than a tour bus and with plenty of urban grittiness in the mix too.
Posted 3 years ago # -
The 1 was the bane of my life for several years. Trying to get from Clermiston to Gorgie for 6pm. Never knowing if it was going to turn up or if it had been stuck on Queensferry Road since lunchtime. And then at 10pm trying to get home after work it would often run early so despite my best efforts I would have to get the later one and not be home before 11. A four hour shift could take 3 hours of logistics depending on the traffic.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Was that a later incarnation of the 18? For a while in the early 90s I caught it across town from somewhere around Marchmont to Queensferry Road. Initially it went through the West end but then progressively went further along Princes Street and George Street. Until it ended up doing a lap of St Andrews Square before returning to the west end. By that point I had realised it was quicker to get off when it arrived in town and walk to the bus stop where it left town and catch the earlier bus.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I've got "fond" memories of getting the 32/52 to/from Portobello to play football at the Pitz as a teenager.
It took about an hour to cover a distance of about 4-5 miles but it was pretty much door-to-door.For a tour of Edinburgh the outer (32/52) and inner (42/46) routes were great.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Dunno about all this 32, 52, 42, 46 stuff.
As far as I was concerned it was 1 and 6 that were the "circle" route. Was 32/52 the "outer circle" route?
Seems to be backed up by this:
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In 1988 (and other years?) Service 1 was a circular route (anti-clockwise):
Clermiston - Corstorphine - Carrick Knowe - Stenhouse - Gorgie - Fountainbridge -
Royal Mile - Holyrood - Easter Road - Leith - Goldenacre - Crewe Toll - Davidson's Mains - Clermiston.Service 6. was the same route in the other direction (clockwise).
---
I don't have a old timetable for Service 32, but I recall that it used to be an 'Outer4 Circle' that ran through many of Edinburgh's suburbs and taking about two hours to complete the circle.
For a period, the route was Service 32 running one way round the circle and Service 52 running the other way.
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In 1988 to 1993 (and other years?) Service 46 was a circular route (clockwise)
Portobello - Duddingston - Craigmillar - Cameron Toll - Causewayside - St Andrew Square - Lochend - Craigentinny - Portobello.
Service 42. was the same route in the other direction (anticlockwise).
----
http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_edin_t/0_edinburgh_transport_-_buses_termini.htm
So, THREE "circle" routes!
Posted 3 years ago # -
What about the 34 and 35 that used to go in opposite directions in a loop through Dundee Street so you had to make sure that you were on the right one, or when the 23 used to go through Craighouse and the buses in both directions called at the same stop. Edinburgh buses aren't always simple...
Posted 3 years ago # -
@crowriver - pretty sure I have remembered that right. I reckon the old 32/52 was the friskiest of LRT services. I didn't use it that often yet over the years I still saw someone waving a machete around, a guy smoking a joint at about 7am - long before weed was regularly spotted in public, a chap take a dump, someone wee themselves, a spectacularly drunk women arrested and huckled off the bus, and smelt a man with the world's worst BO - honestly, could have stripped paint.
(I want to make it clear that none of these were me).
Posted 3 years ago #
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