“time for UBI has come”
Yes
Remember Richard Nixon almost introduced it?
Problem is, of only marginal in current situation.
Certainly one of the things on the ‘after it’s all over’ list.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need a coronavirus thread?
(5710 posts)-
Posted 5 years ago #
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Sturgeon said that the country was moving into surveillance testing to give a more accurate picture of infections.
too late, far too late. incompetent uk-wide leadership that wont be forgotten.
Posted 5 years ago # -
“incompetent uk-wide leadership that wont be forgotten”
Sadly I suspect that’s not true (by most people).
Posted 5 years ago # -
well - not yet, anyway
Posted 5 years ago # -
“incompetent uk-wide leadership”
I think one problem is denial (we are all at it).
It’s still unclear (to me) whether UKGov ignored ‘best scientific advice’ or if it was wrong.
Was “herd immunity” ever a real plan - or possible without a vaccine?
Would a basic mask be any sort of protection? (It might make people keep 2M away...)
Should supermarket staff be given ‘medical grade’ ones by their employers?
Is there still an expectation that 80% of the population will get CV?
Is there any info on whether people can get it more than once?
Is there any idea of whether transmission is more from ‘surfaces’ or through the air?
These are just some of my unknown unknowns.
And I’ve read/watched vast amounts of ‘news’ plus watched the 2 docs on C4 last night.
Standout from that was Peter Snow looking forward to the end of his 14 day self isolating - as though that was all he needed to do.
He’s 81, his wife is 73.
Strange times.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Roads deserted
People staying in house more as meant to be working from home?
Schools closed so no school traffic, teachers or support staff or kids
Posted 5 years ago # -
a lot of questions there, chdot
my one is this - is there any evidence that it goes away?
is the definition of "recovered" just discharged from hospital to free up a bed.
i say this because on day 13 of the virus here i don't seem to be getting any better (or worse)
Posted 5 years ago # -
"If you live with others and you or one of them have symptoms that may be caused by coronavirus, then household members must stay at home and not leave your house for 14 days ... If possible, you should not go out even to buy food or other essentials, other than exercise, and in that case at a safe distance from others. The 14-day period starts from the day when the first person in your house became ill."
Emphasis mine. If you feel well enough to exercise, you can go out and exercise. Staying 100% at home and becoming an unhealthy couch potato benefits noone.
My in-laws in Austria are restricted to their "Geminde" (approximately parish, but that isn't an exact translation). Elsewhere people are restricted to 2km from their home. If you start at the centre of a 2km circle, go to the circumference, go round the circumference, and return to the middle, that's 16km (10 miles) (assuming pi=3 which is good enough for mental arithmetic...)
Posted 5 years ago # -
@fimm, the message is too subtle - people are going out to exercise on the beach
This is why the guy in Paris ran his marathon on his balcony
Posted 5 years ago # -
“a lot of questions there, chdot”
Well yes, and I don’t thing it’s ‘don’t be stupid, everyone except you knows the answer to them all’.
“is there any evidence that it goes away?“
That’s a good one. Quite a lot of talk about ‘could go on for another year (or more)’ - which may or may not related to the (potential) availability of a vaccine.
“is the definition of "recovered" just discharged from hospital to free up a bed.”
I suspect not. People needing hospital treatment are likely to be quite ill and unlikely to be kicked until danger is over. But in an idea world they probably should be kept in longer for recovery.
“i say this because on day 13 of the virus here i don't seem to be getting any better (or worse)”
Have you been tested?
Posted 5 years ago # -
Have you been tested?
hahaha. that's a good one.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Well I knew the answer really!
How sure are you you’ve got CV?
Posted 5 years ago # -
that's a good question.
first week i was 50-50. then i was 80% sure, now fairly certain.
folk on this forum will be generally similar to me, in reasonable cardio-respiratory health, and therefore the symptoms will be regarded as clinically "mild"
after the initial low grade fever period, there's a groundhog day reset every morning. you think you're feeling a bit better than yesterday. by midday your limbs are useless and you're a shambles. later in the day, respiratory is tight. same drill each day.
tom hanks reports the same, btw, and he's tested positive.
no evidence of anyone being tested here unless hospitalised first.
Posted 5 years ago # -
"Hopefully families will remember the pleasure of riding quiet routes after all this is over, and won't just go back to car-dominated normality."
Yeah right! They're only cycling because the pubs, cafes, restaurants and soft play are closed. So, obvs it's a holiday and "fun" is compulsory... Also many/most will have arrived at the quiet route by car.
Cycled with family to allotment yesterday. Eschewed railway paths/shared use as they are full of dog walkers even on "quiet" days. Instead took main road. Quieter than normal on a Sunday with Holyrood Park closed. Most drivers fine, though still a few inconsiderate/reckless close passes. Tested out the new segregated cycle lane at Jock's Lodge/Piershill, even though unfinished and not officially "in use" (cones etc in way) still possible to ride it and definitely preferable to mixing in traffic. Can recommend, just a pity it's relatively short.
Allotment plots busier than usual, but then it has been really wet and cold so folk taking the opportunity to plant some stuff now better weather has arrived.
On way back in early evening, some right idiot drivers tearing along Portobello Road at high speed, dangerous attempts to overtake at traffic islands, etc. Was glad to divert to Restalrig Avenue for some relative peace and quiet.
Will go down again today as not working until tomorrow and want to see if roads are quieter...
Posted 5 years ago # -
If you feel well enough to exercise, you can go out and exercise
I really hope that is the case here. I can do laps of the golf course as long as I'm not cooped up inside.
Posted 5 years ago # -
50mph d***head driving in evidence on the emptying streets.
Posted 5 years ago # -
I'll dare to attempt to reference answers from trusted sources...
It’s still unclear (to me) whether UKGov ignored ‘best scientific advice’ or if it was wrong.
Neither - the models were refined based on new data. Primarily to do with the rate of hospitalisation/intensive care required, which was unknown, so initially based on known data for other pneumonias.
Was “herd immunity” ever a real plan - or possible without a vaccine?
Probably, but once the rate of hospitaliation was known, it wasn't then sustainable.
Would a basic mask be any sort of protection?
Only to reduce transmission from an ill person to someone else, and to discourage a healthy person from touching their face, but poor fit, poor choice of mask, and poor use (too long, touching contaminated side, etc) reduce effectiveness.
https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/expert-opinion/100-questions-peter-piot-lshtm-director
Is there still an expectation that 80% of the population will get CV?
That still seems to be the case - we're a "naive" population, so there is no immunity beyond rare individuals (cf HIV).
Is there any info on whether people can get it more than once?
Unknown. Unlikely (in general), however there is at least one reported potential repeat case. Could be misdiagnosis, or suseptible individual.
Is there any idea of whether transmission is more from ‘surfaces’ or through the air?
Droplet transmission, hence stay away from droplet range (2m). These then rest on surfaces and can be transferred to mucous membranes (eyes, nose, mouth) by hand contact.
Licking doorknobs is no longer appropriate...
The two links should cover most of the questions from either Imperial College or London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.
Robert
Posted 5 years ago # -
Oh and for the interested, the LSHTM have an online course in COVID-19.
https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/covid19-novel-coronavirus
Robert
Posted 5 years ago # -
Thanks Roibeard that's helpful.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Great Robert
Thanks
(Not that it matters) I still don’t understand the herd immunity thing - what were they hoping would happen - were they ignoring realities elsewhere?
“Droplet transmission, hence stay away from droplet range (2m). These then rest on surfaces and can be transferred to mucous membranes (eyes, nose, mouth) by hand contact.”
Yes, but which method is actually the main one so far?
Presumably touching surfaces then face.
Does anyone know?
So advice/sensible action remains keep 2M apart, wash/sanitise hands after touching surfaces, buses, play equipment stuff bought in shops, delivered to your door etc etc.
Apart from the practical realities - fewer tube trains, still packed - and ‘refusal’ of people to heed advice - it all seems to be spreading faster than seems possible even if only some people are managing to manage.
Perhaps there’s a longer ‘pre-symptom’ period than realised?
Posted 5 years ago # -
@chdot
read this article i posted yesterday
Posted 5 years ago # -
Is there still an expectation that 80% of the population will get CV?
That still seems to be the case
This is not helping my anxiety. X-(
Posted 5 years ago # -
@Arellcat - the idea is hopefully to make sure as many of those as possible are people who will likely have a mild / unpleasant but not dangerous illness though. Once many, many people have had it it will then be safer for those who are more vulnerable - both in terms of likely infection and in terms of available medical support if they do. Have also seen from people smarter than me the note that the later into a epidemic or pandemic you get sick, the more likely it is that better treatment protocols or new drugs / drug combinations have been developed - another reason to delay infection of vulnerable people as long as possible, if it's not avoidable altogether.
Posted 5 years ago # -
“This is not helping my anxiety”
For you, anyone with concerns, don’t click bax’s link.
Posted 5 years ago # -
The Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland seems to have decided to continue congregating.
People need instructions and soon.
Posted 5 years ago # -
From link
“
arguing that the act of public worship is a “divine institution” and “not a mere social activity.”
“
Posted 5 years ago # -
For you, anyone with concerns, don’t click bax’s link.
Honestly, I wouldn't click it anyway - for the same reason I don't read detailed descriptions of what an aggressive cancer does to the body when I'm worried about the risk of developing cancer. It doesn't help me protect myself or other people, it raises anxiety, it presents the worst case scenario and kind of implies that it's the most likely scenario (the headline encourages this - they still want their advertising clicks! - but the % say that it is not - it's a risk, and not a tiny one, but it's NOT what will happen to most people who contact Covid-19).
This is a no' bad take from a non-specialist: https://twitter.com/AlexSteffen/status/1240464065069076480
see especially:
"One thing that helps me is a concept I've heard described as "mental hygiene."
It centers on remembering that feeling even distantly threatened, and observing others' danger and suffering can both be traumatic to you. And they add up over time.
When we're facing a crisis—whether from COVID-19 or the climate emergency—many of us experience a loss of control.
A natural response is to try to regain control by learning everything we can, so we immerse ourselves in the news.
Often, we seek out the worst news, the most shocking possibilities, the grimmest forecasts—in part, I find, as a way of innoculating myself against the fear that it's worse than I think and I'm about to be caught off guard.
There is an endless supply of bad news, shocking events, and apocalyptic warnings right now, and people are happy to offer up as much as you can take and then some. You will run out of mental health long before the world runs out of traumatizing stories."
- my bold.
This seems true to me, even in non-pandemic times.
Posted 5 years ago # -
IWRATS - they are just trying to catch up with Italy. No point being a presbyterian if catholics are having less fun than you.
Posted 5 years ago # -
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
-Jesus, who I understand is (ostensibly) involved in The Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland.
Posted 5 years ago # -
“
but it's NOT what will happen to most people who contact Covid19)
“
That’s probably true, but the predicted problem (UK) is that enough people will get it badly enough to overwhelm ICU (etc) resources.
Posted 5 years ago #
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