I had a look at the The Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland's website, thinking this was a hoax or a mistake. This led me to read their Religion and Morals Committee report for 2014 (the latest year available). To say that I found myself experiencing a cultural divide there is to test the boundaries of language. And yet right now we need a universal language that covers all of us and all of our activities. Only absolute unity will beat this thing.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need a coronavirus thread?
(5710 posts)-
Posted 5 years ago #
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Well, they may be leaning towards "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matthew 18:20
(They do have teeny congregations I suspect- and it sounds like they'll be pretty spaced out. Not sure sitting three pews away from another worshipper in a drafty Western Isles church is as high risk as trying to keep 2 metres away from oblivious fellow shoppers as you anxiously try to get some groceries in and use the now apparently VERY close together self check-outs. The elderly members are a big worry worry though, yes.)
Posted 5 years ago # -
@chdot
That’s probably true, but the predicted problem (UK) is that enough people will get it badly enough to overwhelm ICU (etc) resources.
Yes - and that is very serious and frightening, but facing up to the facts is not quite the same thing as implying that it's a death sentence for most who are infected when the key risk for many (not all, including immediate family members of mine - I am not dismissing this as somehow irrelevant here) is of spreading it to those who are at greater medical risk. These are different risks and different fears. I don't think it's useful to confuse them. For multiple reasons.
This update is what (most - not all) of us should be afraid of contributing to:
"12:56
We are on the cusp of the rapid acceleration of cases
Chief Medical Officer Dr Catherine Calderwood says we are on the cusp of the rapid acceleration of coronavirus cases in Scotland.The 14 deaths probably each represent up to 1,000 people that have become infected, Dr Calderwood says.
She adds there are 23 people in ICUs across Scotland who represent 400 to 500 other people who will have become infected.
The numbers are an underestimate of the actual size of the outbreak in Scotland, reiterates the chief medical officer."
Posted 5 years ago # -
"people are going out to exercise on the beach"
We did this yesterday. There were a lot more people there than I'd expected but, at least at the Seafield end, people were generally keeping their distance from one another.
Posted 5 years ago # -
"is there any evidence that it goes away"
One view I heard (someone from Johns Hopkins) was that it will become one of the other 4 coronaviruses that spread every year, ie the cold. Likely virus will become weaker to survive, and also humans will develop some resistance to it like we have the cold.
80% number still true, but over long period of a year, flatten the curve.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Isolation is quite easy for me, I'm a bit of a loner anyway.
But I don't seem to get past day 5 without the possibility someone has brought it into the house.
Been home since Weds, got to Friday Son, and Wife now home from School/work. But then need for shops on Sat, back to day 0. Will get to Weds and think I'm safe again, and then the vector will go to work again on Thurs/Fri. sigh.
Posted 5 years ago # -
@baldcyclist
hear you aye, but my question is at the individual contagion level
i am decidedly not beating this thing. it seems to have set up shop in my lungs, with some kind of backdoor tenancy agreement with my treasonous immune system..
how are things with @nobrakes and @cocoshep ?
Posted 5 years ago # -
I'm with the FPs on this one - church gatherings are essential, not social. With that in mind, the question then is how to minimise the risk of transmission in that essential activity (cf refueling cars, shopping, working). And that might mean sacrificing other less essential things to compensate for the risks represented by the essential.
Although I fully recognise that places me (and the Free Presbyterians) at odds with society and indeed most church leaders...
Robert
Posted 5 years ago # -
Posted 5 years ago #
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We also need to stop watching the 6 oclock news. Wife got a delivery of something on Saturday, and the boy ran to the door and started shouting. Danger, danger germs whilst pointing at the (now terrified looking) man.
Hope those affected begin to see light at the end of the tunnel. @Bax, that's been quite a while now, have you had medical advice?
Posted 5 years ago # -
“I fully recognise that places me at odds with society“
Right or wrong, most people(?) probably support diversity over uniformity.
(In theory...)
Posted 5 years ago # -
All shops shut
Salmond jury 2 down
Posted 5 years ago # -
@baldcyclist
not personally been to Gp, nothing they can do for this unless it progresses to requiring respiratory aid, but the wife has antibiotics from the GP in case her lungs get bacterially infected, she is quite bronchial. no point taking them meantime as the immune system doesnt need to take a hammering from antibiotics unless its vital
Posted 5 years ago # -
@Roibeard
You are too generous to UK govt.
They wanted everyone to catch it to "get it over and done with" (or "take it on the chin, phwoffle" in De Peffel parlance) to cause minimal upset to the Holy economy.
Then they did the maths and worked out that 260,000 would die.
Followed by a calculated decision on whether that number of deaths would result in massive upset to the economy anyway, riots, and no re-election for them...
Money. Money. Re-election. Money. It's all they think about.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Was that an order to shut? We have a new bike to collect from Ebc tomorrow. They assured us they were keeping at least workshop open and we could collect.
Posted 5 years ago # -
I am totally mystified how the UK government thought that basically doing nothing would be OK given the bleakness of reports from China and Italy. Thank goodness 'the report' was released, but it's extremely bizarre that the high-level findings seem to have been a surprise to the UK government, its advisors and nobody else.
Posted 5 years ago # -
@roibeard I’m quite enjoying the various virtual church services and online chat. I hear my church may set up a WhatsApp group, which I may stay off. But lots of fellowship and worship still happening.
Posted 5 years ago # -
@bax
Mine progressed from lower lungs to include bronchial wheezing a couple of days ago (~day 8). Since then I've also had a stuffy nose, felt like I had blocked sinuses and a bit of a cold, and have coughed up some nasty looking gunk. Honestly I don't think there's a symptom I haven't had in the last week and a half, I've been all over the place.
Now on day 10 and I'd say this is the first where I've felt any sort of improvement. My thinking is maybe the infection is going or gone, and it's just residual lung damage that remains which could take any number of days or weeks to resolve? Which would maybe tie in with your question - does it ever go away?
Hope you get better soon. Likewise @nobrakes.
Posted 5 years ago # -
@chdot
I very much support conformity in response to pandemics.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Saw report around noon that "non-essential" shops were to shut.
Went out to Poundstretchers on foot for possibly last time in a while to get seeds, gardening supplies. First excursion wearing surgical mask and nitrile gloves. Bit sweaty/claustrophobic, but that was as nothing compared to the alarmed look on folks' faces as I wandered past keeping my distance. Felt a bit sorry for retail staff having to work with no PPE.
Saw two others with face masks: a gentleman of South East Asian extraction and an older lady (home made mask). Latter was in Iceland where I headed afterwards for food. Some restocking in evidence, fairly quiet. Clearly been some panic-buying/party-buying of booze over the weekend: not quite as bad as loo roll/kitchen roll situation last week, but fairly spartan selection nevertheless.
After lunch I will head to allotment for a few hours, will report on road scenario but evidence suggests mostly single occupant cars out and about. Very few buses, vans.
Posted 5 years ago # -
If I understand correctly mortality may be lower in China this year as a result of the pandemic.
Posted 5 years ago # -
> Felt a bit sorry for retail staff having to work with no PPE.
I hope knowing that they were extremely unlikely to catch it off you gave them some comfort!
Posted 5 years ago # -
(@CoCoShepherd @bax dunno if this is any comfort as it wasn't Covid-19 but the horrible cough-heavy chest cold I had before Christmas took 4-5 weeks to pass and almost 1-2 more before I felt 100% again. So I wouldn't be shocked if it took a good long time to recover from even a "mild" case of Covid-19. Last time I had proper flu, c. 2003, I was wrecked for ages afterwards despite my relative youth. So could be a slow process, but I hope you'll start on an upward slope soon.)
Posted 5 years ago # -
“I am totally mystified how the UK government thought that basically doing nothing would be OK given the bleakness of reports from China and Italy”
I’m afraid there will have been elements of ‘we’re British’, ‘island nation’, ‘borders’, ‘not in the EU anymore’, misunderstandings of ‘herd immunity’ etc (as well as all the previous mentions of not upsetting ‘the economy’).
I don’t suppose any, after the event, inquiry will usefully identify any particular failings.
Easy to say ‘there should have been a total lockdown as soon as Italy started it’. It was clear that no one imagined it would be possible to do what China did ‘in the west’, but once Italy managed, maybe...
No doubt there was a feeling that ‘it can’t be done in the UK’.
We’ll see, shortly perhaps.
Lessons learned? Preparations for the future? Back to business as was as fast as possible??
Posted 5 years ago # -
Preparations for the future?
My understanding is that people who work in the area of pandemic / epidemic type stuff have been sounding the alarm persistently for years about the likely threat of new viruses leaping to humans from wildlife (possibly via domestic animals) as we encroach further on habitats around the world. Looks quite likely Lyme in NE America is one of those, with added climate change encouragement. Read a 2012 article yesterday that I could dig out if wanted...
Essentially - preparations should probably include taking these risks seriously and ensuring we have robust systems in place to deal with the next one. (Public health can't be an individual matter - in a sense we are all only as secure as the most vulnerable: worldwide.)
Posted 5 years ago # -
Young lad of my acquaintance has had to move out of his flat because a flat-mate has become mentally unstable after watching Covid-19 TV news continuously for a week.
I don't rate the general mental health of this country very highly now and I fear for what it will become after six months indoors. Another Italian friend had a very close miss with something awful during the lockdown last week. I shall attempt to look after my own welfare and I think solo cycling (is there another kind?) will be part of that as long as it's allowed.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Well, I'm teetering already and I'm still allowed out, so yeahhhh.
Posted 5 years ago # -
“become mentally unstable after watching Covid-19 TV news continuously for a week”
I’m surviving (so far). Personal situation much better than most people in the world.
Absolute ban on cycling would be a problem.
Don’t know when final bit of food would be eaten (without further trips to shops).
Milkman seems confident he’ll keep up deliveries.
Posted 5 years ago # -
@unhurt
That's something that has crossed my mind - what if this is 'just' a chest infection and I've not even had Covid-19. Pretty sure it has been the real thing but that niggling doubt causes me a bit of anxiety about going back out into the big bad world in another few days. What if I end up right back in this position with an already gubbed set of airbags. Shiver.
Posted 5 years ago #
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