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Do we need a coronavirus thread?

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  1. Baldcyclist
    Member

    I'd have thought population density was important. London and New York for example have similar populations, but London although badly affected is much less so than New York.

    Some arguing over what is the best measure death rate per million/hundred thousand, shows UK not as badly affected as many countries,and US faring better, but simple cumulative totals show US really badly affected with no population data.

    Also rate per reported cases doesn't account for different testing levels.

    One thing that has surprised me is watching all of the horror stories of Italy and Spain, and China to some extent on the news, but not seeing the same reporting here now we have similar death rates.

    Either other countries health services were being overwhelmed nore, or our media are being silenced? Or perhaps the disease is more geographically widespread here than other places meaning numbers are high overall, but no single area being overwhelmed (London closest to being overwhelmed)?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    The survey of nearly 2,000 surgeons and trainees showed a postcode lottery when it comes to PPE. More than half (52%) of respondents in the Thames Valley said they now have access to adequate PPE, but that dropped to just over a third (34.7%) in the North West.

    In London, which has been at the heart of the outbreak in the UK, a third (33.4%) of respondents said they do not believe their trust has an adequate supply of PPE.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2020/apr/12/coronavirus-live-news-nhs-staff-deaths-boris-johnson-latest-updates?page=with:block-5e92d5de8f082dfd549d4f1e#block-5e92d5de8f082dfd549d4f1e

    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    I agree, Baldcyclist. The UK and England in particular (though they/London may be ahead of us in curve) is shaping up to have the most deaths in Europe both in absolute and per capita terms, more even than unlocked-down Sweden. This thing is going to go on for months, if not years, so we need to know why that is immediately, to make changes to save lives, rather than years down the line after a long drawn-out inquiry so a retired judge can pay his club fees.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. stiltskin
    Member

    From BBC:

    Fixed penalty notices have been issued to a group of people who had to be rescued from Cramond Island.

    The alarm was raised when three men and a woman were cut off by the tide yesterday afternoon. The police and the South Queensferry Lifeboat were involved in the rescue.

    Once back on shore officers fined the group for flouting lockdown measures.The Lifeboat team is urging people to avoid putting themselves and others at risk.
    Article share tools


    I would have left them there if I'm honest.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. gembo
    Member

    Stupidity Squared

    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. crowriver
    Member

    "One thing that has surprised me is watching all of the horror stories of Italy and Spain, and China to some extent on the news, but not seeing the same reporting here now we have similar death rates."

    Surprised? Not if you've witnessed the (largely English) exceptionalism* of the past 4+ years of Brexsh1t. We're supposed to be better than the continentals, therefore we need to call on our reserves of Blitz/Dunkirk spirit and "take it on the chin" or blame China, Italy, super spreaders, anyone really apart from ourselves and our inept government(s).

    * - For some, there is a similar Scottish exceptionalism where SNP government is beyond reproach and is inherently and obviously better than the English/UK government, however crass, inept or corrupt its decisions and behaviour. Because it's our government, not theirs. Remember Bannockburn, Arbroath, etc. (Even if we accept some of the Scottish government's actions are demonstrably more reasonable, progressive, democratic, etc. not all are or have been).

    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. gembo
    Member

    Also New Zealand went into lockdown instantly but we just copied Italy, Spain and France except we have gone slowly into incomplete lockdown.

    We dont learn

    Posted 4 years ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    “This thing is going to go on for months, if not years, so we need to know why that is immediately, to make changes to save lives, rather than years down the line”

    Yes

    Problem is there are no apparent, straightforward, ‘answers’.

    Whether or not various parts of the UK (inc London v rest) are dealing with it better/worse than other parts of the world is largely irrelevant.

    BUT

    It’s essential to understand high probabilities/best advice from wherever and implement ASAP.

    Not sure demanding ‘exit strategies’ is remotely helpful.

    This is not like a hurricane which will pass ‘soon’.

    Except that devastation will be left (and there could be another one right behind or next year or...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    If my analysis of the conversation is correct there are members of three households gathered next door for Easter. Kids, parents and oldies. I hope they don't die as a result.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. minus six
    Member

    same deal here iwrats, and not just the extended family on their easter barbeque weekend sun-days

    dropping off several hyperactive kids daily while the key worker sister goes off to do a full shift at the supermarket.. i understand it, how can they say no.. but none of them look like they'd go ten rounds with the heavyweight virus

    Posted 4 years ago #
  11. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Normally it's two households. Two lads come in to refurbish their relative's house I think. I get that self-employed people need to eat. I really don't think they've understood what's afoot.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  12. minus six
    Member

    the chat i'm overhearing all over the place is.. if you're gonna get it, you're gonna get it

    fatalist bravado

    Posted 4 years ago #
  13. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Some bravado, no doubt. Some stupidity, some need. Defiance too maybe?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  14. crowriver
    Member

    "fatalist bravado"

    Take It On The Chin.

    So granny and grandad have to die? Worth it for that extra pay packet, no doubt...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  15. minus six
    Member

    Defiance too maybe?

    dunno what lies behind it, but its probably the same thing that led them unwittingly down the road to clinical obesity and diabetes

    more to be pitied than scolded, at the end of the day

    Posted 4 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

  17. chdot
    Admin

  18. chdot
    Admin

    STAY AT HOME

    That’s fine

    If you can


    Around half of the A&E staff at the Royal Gwent hospital in Newport, Wales, one of the worst-affected areas in the UK for coronavirus, have tested positive for Covid-19.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2020/apr/12/coronavirus-live-news-nhs-staff-deaths-boris-johnson-latest-updates?page=with:block-5e932a2f8f081a236f192099#block-5e932a2f8f081a236f192099

    Posted 4 years ago #
  19. Baldcyclist
    Member

    "Johnson listened to his scientists about coronavirus - but they were slow to sound the alarm"

    https://nationalpost.com/pmn/health-pmn/johnson-listened-to-his-scientists-about-coronavirus-but-they-were-slow-to-sound-the-alarm-2/amp?__twitter_impression=true

    Posted 4 years ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

    That is some piece of journalism.

    On the evening of January 31, Boris Johnson sat before a fireplace in 10 Downing Street and told the nation, in a televised address: “This is the moment when the dawn breaks and the curtain goes up on a new act in our great national drama.”

    He was talking of finally delivering Brexit, or what he called “this recaptured sovereignty.” Until that moment, Johnson’s premiership had been utterly absorbed by delivering on that challenge.

    With Brexit done, Johnson had the chance to focus on other matters the following month, among them the emerging virus threat. But leaving the European Union had a consequence.

    Between February 13 and March 30, Britain missed a total of eight conference calls or meetings about the coronavirus between EU heads of state or health ministers – meetings that Britain was still entitled to join. Although Britain did later make an arrangement to attend lower-level meetings of officials, it had missed a deadline to participate in a common purchase scheme for ventilators, to which it was invited. Ventilators, vitally important to treating the direst cases of COVID-19, have fallen into short supply globally. Johnson’s spokesman blamed an administrative error.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  21. LaidBack
    Member

    UKGov is an 'administrative error' :-)

    Ok - Any idea of exceptionalism vs C-19 has a predictable outcome but centralising response was not desirable or even possible in UK devolved states. The failure by UKGov to even deliver scripted responses correctly is not exactly inspiring confidence. Priti Patel is way out of her depth as is Raab. Not news though as competence and honesty have not been present in the EU debacle.

    ScotGov of course is not entirely competent either but the media should be able to expose failings - unlikely that foreign owned media are happy with Min Alcohol Pricing and SNP interventions to market. Other parties are on the whole supportive of FM as any leader has to take some blame - as NS found when CMO was found to be in breach of rules.
    CMO won't be only casualty I'm sure.

    BJ on other hand will be relieved not to submit himself to questioning and continuing his recuperation. Some members of his party have also broken rules but that's exactly why some people like them it seems.

    Mrs LB mentions the 50 Covid testing stations set up here as an indication that we could do things a bit differently.
    Not mentioned much on media other than Ch4.
    No idea how well these work but media can ask questions every day at 1.30 from Holyrood.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  22. chdot
    Admin

    Sir Ian Boyd, the chief scientific adviser to Defra between 2012 and 2019 , told the Guardian it was difficult to get ministers to spend money on preparing for high-impact, low-frequency events like pandemics. “Governments over the years have buried their heads, and it is harder to have those conversations with people who have a small-government view of the world,” he said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/revealed-value-of-uk-pandemic-stockpile-fell-by-40-in-six-years

    Posted 4 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    Senior US public health officials have pushed back on Donald Trump’s eagerness to reopen the country quickly, as a senior World Health Organization (WHO) figure warned that Covid-19 “is going to be a virus that stalks the human race for quite a long to come”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/12/trump-fauci-hahn-reopening-who-virus-stalk-human-race

    Posted 4 years ago #
  24. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    We have 0.87% of the world's population and 9% of the fatalities. Even accounting for inaccurate or corrupt counting that's deplorable.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  25. gembo
    Member

    @cyclingmollie, what happens if you take London out of those calculations ?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

  27. Baldcyclist
    Member

    Just 4 weeks ago, mass gatherings ok.

    https://youtu.be/kHpVhWFWx3w

    The people at those gatherings are dying right now.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

  29. LaidBack
    Member

    All figures are underestimates too whether UKGov or ScotGov. ScotGov is adding in care homes but always a few days late. Not sure about rUK.

    Are these fatality figures right (roughly)?
    Scotland recorded 600
    rUK recorded 9400

    10,000 figure is not NHS England only but a UK whole? I get confused as media don't make clear.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  30. Baldcyclist
    Member


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