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Do we need a coronavirus thread?

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    “The Scottish Government also appears to be deeply committed to devolution“

    Which seems to be true and a whole other layer of political problem.

    Make no mistake, this is all political - freedom, sovereignty, borders, free trade etc etc (and I’m not just meaning Scotland...)

    NS/SNP have things to think about that don’t really have equivalents in Downing Street.

    Boris and co are UK Unionists or perhaps, now, GB Unionists - ‘there will be no border in the Irish Sea’.

    They only want the the ‘right sort of immigrants’ with ‘numbers in the 10s of thousands’.

    Expect (apparently) there might be (very unlikely of course) 2m coming from HK - just because ‘China is being beastly to them’, and/or ‘the Chinese don’t respect the rule of law’.

    So many reasons Scotland MIGHT be better off without having to rely on UK Govs. Alternatively, strong reasons for better devolution.

    ‘Scotland’ is not, currently, high on Downing Street/Westminster’s priorities list.

    Significant changes of policy/direction seem quite easy to current Gov. Maybe it will decide to give up responsibility for North Britain - without even bothering with a referendum. It would make the Westminster arithmetic easier - they must be realising they won’t be retaining many red wall’ seats.

    Perhaps they will suggest redrawing the border somewhere north of Leeds?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  2. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

  3. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Oh dear

    "The World Health Organization and a number of national governments have changed their Covid-19 policies and treatments on the basis of flawed data from a little-known US healthcare analytics company, also calling into question the integrity of key studies published in some of the world’s most prestigious medical journals."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine

    Posted 5 years ago #
  4. wee folding bike
    Member

    I remember 30 years ago the idea of a large chunk of the HK population relocating to Scotland was suggested. There is space but it would have meant building a lot of houses, hospitals, schools etc in a short time.

    Figured it had to be the Herald as I was in London at the time and wouldn't get Scottish news from anywhere else.

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/11920027.scotland-could-be-site-of-new-hong-kong-says-study/

    Posted 5 years ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    The Conservative former international trade secretary Liam Fox said: “I’m afraid I simply cannot get my head around the public health mental gymnastics of this policy. If such a barrier was required, why was it not introduced earlier in the outbreak? And if it is a contingency measure against a second wave, why apply it to countries with a lower infection rate than we already have. Surely the answer lies in the government’s test-and-trace system, rather than unnecessary economic isolation.”

    MPs asked the question repeatedly as the home secretary failed to give a full answer. Patel told the Commons the government had an “enhanced monitoring” policy at the border in the earlier stages of the pandemic. She said Sage would publish advice in due course and advice from within the Home Office would be provided to the home affairs select committee.

    The government’s chief scientific adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance, told MPs the UK received “a big influx of cases probably from Italy and Spain” in early March that “seeded right the way across the country”.

    Prof Neil Ferguson, the head of the outbreak modelling group at Imperial College London and a former member of Sage, told peers most chains of transmission in the UK originated from Spain or Italy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/priti-patel-urged-to-publish-scientific-advice-behind-uk-quarantine-move

    Posted 5 years ago #
  6. crowriver
    Member

    @Baldcyclist, "That's the spirit. So long as England is worse than us, it doesn't matter how bad we are."

    See also Canada vs USA. I met a Canadian at a conference years ago who was amused by the reputation Canadians had for being nice. He opined this was because of inevitable contrast with their neighbours south of the border in the US. Quoth he "anyone looks good compared to Satan".

    Perhaps something similar can be said for Scotland/England comparisons in many fields of endeavour.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  7. wishicouldgofaster
    Member

    My firm are doing their bit to keep us from travelling. The vast majority of us were told today that we will be working from home until January!

    I am actually quite pleased as I have no wish to go back into an office until this virus is away or a suitable vaccine is available.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  8. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    @wishIcouldgofaster there’s never been a vaccine against a coronavirus, upper respiratory tract infections are poor candidates for vaccines and the most vulnerable age groups are notoriously poor immune responders to vaccination. You may have a long wait

    This article on another coronavirus, OC43, is interesting. Perhaps we might hope SARS-CoV-2 becomes less pathogenic with time

    Posted 5 years ago #
  9. LaidBack
    Member

      BUSINESS Secretary Alok Sharma has been tested for coronavirus after becoming visibly unwell in the House of Commons chamber.

      He was travelling home to self-isolate after he struggled during a speech at the despatch box during the second reading of the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Bill on Wednesday.

      The development came a day after MPs approved the Government’s plan to end virtual voting in the Commons.

      A spokeswoman for Sharma said: “Secretary of State Alok Sharma began feeling unwell when in the chamber delivering the second reading of the Corporate Governance and Insolvency Bill.

      “In line with guidance he has been tested for coronavirus and is returning home to self-isolate.”

      During the debate, he was seen wiping his face with a handkerchief several times and his opposite number in Labour’s shadow cabinet, Ed Miliband, passed him a glass of water at one point.

      Labour shadow minister Toby Perkins had raised concerns over Mr Sharma’s appearance in the Commons earlier in the day.

      “This is not ok. If he has symptoms that could be Covid-19, it’s not up to him to soldier on, he is jeopardising the health of everyone who he comes across and everyone else who touches that despatch box and every door handle he touches etc,” Mr Perkins tweeted.

      Digital voting in the Commons was ended on Tuesday when MPs approved a Government motion introduced by Commons Leader Jacob Rees-Mogg despite widespread objections.

      Senior Conservatives, opposition groups and the equalities watchdog raised concerns that the move would prevent many MPs, particularly the elderly and vulnerable ones who are shielding, from being able to vote.

      Chaotic scenes unfolded in the Commons when MPs formed a long queue snaking through Parliament so they could maintain social distancing while voting on the motion.

      Boris Johnson on Wednesday dismissed complaints over the system, saying: “I do not think it’s unreasonable that we should ask parliamentarians to come back to this place and do their job for the people of this country.”

      But Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer said the scenes were “shameful” and pushed the Prime Minister to end the “completely unnecessary and unacceptable” process.

    Sorry for long extract from National. Ed Miliband even gets a mention. He'll need to isolate as will any others that have been in close contact?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  10. biketrain
    Member

    Bike Locks left at work.
    Earlier this week, I was passing office, whilst exercising on my bike and remembered that I had left my bike lock attached to the bike racks back in early March. Unfortunately, like many other locks it had been pushed up against the building and was no longer under the shelter. It took some time to unlock it due to the rust that is now abundant within the mechanism. I may have carefully pushed all the locks back under the shelter. Those of you that have left a lock at the office may wish to consider what condition they will be in on their return.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  11. chdot
    Admin

  12. crowriver
    Member

    "...anecdotal evidence suggests many Scots are disregarding guidance."

    Too right they are!

    Almost no-one is wearing masks in shops for instance. I hear a rumour that the "received wisdom" of many is only vulnerable folk and those shielding are wearing masks. This is nonsense of course, it seems rather that the DILLIGAF types have made others think twice about whether they "need" to wear a mask. So everyone's walking around like they're invulnerable or something. Madness!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  13. Morningsider
    Member

    This is just a bit of theatre to make it look like:

    1. The UK Government are doing something useful.
    2. Now everyone is wearing a mask, it is perfectly safe to get on the bus/train - so back to work plebs.

    Do masks provide some limited benefit? The science seems to say yes. Is that really what this is about - no.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

    This perspective leads inexorably and inescapably to two overarching positions in the national economic and fiscal policy debate: First, the snake must be given free rein and nourishment to grow (to stay ahead of the consuming mouth of public enterprise);second, public enterprise’s voracious mouth must be forcefully held in check, lest it get ahead of the snake’s growth, and gobble itself toward the unimaginable oblivion. The tension between these positions has become paralyzing in today’s modern society—as is now evident in our confrontation with the coronavirus. (It will become more evident—and more tense—as the global climate crises unfolds.)

    http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2020/04/standard-money-theory-and-the-coronavirus.html

    Posted 5 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    It comes as a leaked email from the chief executive of Serco – one of the main companies contracted to deliver the service – revealed how he doubted the scheme would evolve smoothly but said he wanted it to “cement the position of the private sector” in the NHS supply chain

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/04/nhs-track-and-trace-system-not-expected-to-be-operating-fully-until-september-coronavirus

    Posted 5 years ago #
  16. acsimpson
    Member

    2m might or might not be enough distance to leave outside but if you are inside with someone for any length of time you had better hope they are not shedding.

    https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/05/27/science.abc6197

    I should say that I am not familiar with the source but it does seem to suggest that snakes of MPs might all be infected if any of them are.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  17. gembo
    Member

    The Wombling Group I am in (picked 5 bin bags worth myself and nudged it towards calling itself THe Lang Whang Wombles so I am more Tomsk than Great Uncle Bulgaria) Has had the good news treatment from Angie Brown journalist on the BBC Scotland website.

    The guy who started it put up home made signs and wrote on the back Cyclists we need you so I became involved as did a couple of other cyclists I know.

    He does not mention cycling in the article but there is a cracking picture of a lone cyclist on the whang - big empty car a nd rubbish free road at that time (cars and indeed rubbish returning)

    Posted 5 years ago #
  18. Baldcyclist
    Member

    "to “cement the position of the private sector” in the NHS supply chain"

    Isn't it already, everything the NHS consumes is made in the private sector? They don't make X-ray machines or gloves, so why do people get upset if NHS money is used to buy other private services?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  19. fimm
    Member

    I understand that the couple being charged with "reckless conduct" mentioned a couple of pages back are being so charged because they drove 60 miles and went out ill-equipped, not because they called out Mountain Rescue.

    I saw a post on Twitter from a chap who lives in Fort William. He'd cycled to the North Face car park and walked up Ben Nevis. He's a mountain guide; I don't think what he did was unreasonable (he was commenting that he could tell that his hill fitness is not what it was).
    There was a quote in that thread "No car, no gnar, no far" which I quite liked.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  20. SRD
    Moderator

    i just had a row with stair cleaners in my stair. told them 'it wasn't essential' and that they shouldn't be there. i am right, aren't I?

    very unpleasant way of starting the day.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

  22. chdot
    Admin

  23. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    There have been hints that the couple didn't call MRT themselves which adds a different complexion to it.

    In addition, they haven't been charged with breaching Covid Regs but a rather serious charge with a maximum sentence of life imprisonment(!). If it's due to being 'under-equipped', the hillrunners I've met on top of some rather remote Munros in normal times with nothing more than a bumbag full of jelly babies should be worried.

    Quite a lot of confusion and anger in the hillwalking community about it.

    https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/hill_talk/more_walkers_charged-720229

    > Damon Powell (Chair of Scottish MRT) 2 June:

    > “We are also aware how deeply frustrating it is when everyone who is making such sacrifices see people openly flouting the guidance. We are pleased to see the police taking action against such individuals.”

    > Damon Powell 4 June:

    > “Mountain rescue teams are here to help. If people get into difficulties in the hills they should be clear that MR assistance is provided without cost and without judgement.”

    With inconsistency like that, I'm not surprised people are confused and angry.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  24. Roibeard
    Member

    Cleaning a communal space might actually be a good idea in a pandemic. Maintaining hygiene seems like a basic precaution, so I'd have placed cleaning in an "essential work" basis.

    However the levels of dust and clutter in my home might suggest I place a lower premium on cleaning than the above!

    Robert

    Posted 5 years ago #
  25. fimm
    Member

    Interesting thread and discussion, Murun, thank you for the link.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  26. SRD
    Moderator

    we have been cleaning it. but have gotten a bit slack. just did a run over the railings with soap and warm water. will get kids to sweep and mop later.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  27. Baldcyclist
    Member

    Potential good news?

    UCL models show perhaps 50% to 80% of the population may not be susceptible to the virus.

    Data also maybe beginning to suggest that lockdowns are not biggest factor (but are still a factor), as to how well a country will do. UK and Sweden for example have a very similar death rate, but different mitigations.

    Example given the average German is quite different from the average Scot, and so lots of factors contribute including health of the population, other factors such as prevalence of common cold prior to epidemic, other coronaviruses could have made antibodies that protected, or helped against this.

    Modeler qualifies his comments stating he is not an epidemiologist, but works with them to analyse the data and inform policy.

    Early UCL models assumed the virus would consume the whole population not 20% to 50%, and hence the high death predictions. He argues they weren't wrong, they just didn't have all the data then that they have now due to being new virus etc.

    He doesn't think there will b a 2nd wave.

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Flash Video

    Posted 5 years ago #
  28. Blueth
    Member

    Ref the wearing of masks. As I understand it a shop comes within the scope of where the FM wants us to wear a mask.

    We could debate effectiveness of masks but I wear one when shopping, if only as a matter of courtesy towards staff who are highly exposed in comparison to shoppers.

    I have to ask why, taking everything in to account, this courtesy is not returned. Between the four different supermarkets I have used I find no staff wearing masks.

    Not only are employers bound by law to protect workers from risks posed by shoppers (in this case) but also to protect those who might be affected by the actions or omissions of their employees. This seems to be a complete failure to observe HASAWA.

    I did write to Aldi to praise them for measures taken but also to raise a couple of points, one being that there was little point in having someone to control numbers in the shop if shoppers had to scrape past that person to get in to the shop. Answer came there none.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  29. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    There's also some bad news for you (judging by your moniker), and I, Baldcyclist

    https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/05/bald-men-greater-risk-serious-coronavirus-symptoms-12808352/

    Posted 5 years ago #
  30. crowriver
    Member

    Easter Road absolutely hoaching this afternoon. Traffic levels nearly back to normal, loads of folk wandering the street too. Shops mobbed, queues to get in. A sizeable minority not observing social distancing. Almost no-one wearing face coverings of any description: apart from myself, just one young woman at the till, and two young women I surmised to be from South East Asia or China wearing masks on the street.

    I find the indifference to the virus among the locals puzzling. Either:
    - There are a lot more DILLIGAFS around here than I ever suspected.
    - Some kind of magical thinking is afoot, i.e. if we all behave as though things are back to normal then they will be.

    Posted 5 years ago #

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