CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Scottish Govmt announces £10m for pop up cycle/walking lanes

(3659 posts)
  • Started 4 years ago by HankChief
  • Latest reply from ejstubbs

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  1. CycleAlex
    Member

    I really wish CEC would put up advanced warning of new closures/restrictions, especially when planned well in advance. It seems like they keep shooting themselves in the foot by not doing so.

    Noticed quite a few people annoyed at the changes on Marine Drive/West Shore Road where there's a new closure and DYLs. There was no advanced notice despite going out to Cllrs five weeks ago.

    Even if people are supportive/neutral of the measures, you're probably going to be a bit miffed at suddenly finding the road they use closed or there being DYLs outside their house.

    Putting up a temp yellow sign saying parking removed/road closed/etc here from XX/XX/XXXX would give people a heads up without having any impact on the project. Sure, it won't make a difference to people who are fervently opposed, but it might help keep people on side.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  2. neddie
    Member

    Alternatively, if they gave 6 weeks warning, they’d be flooded with a mountain of complaints. Troops would be mobilised, and councillors would buckle soon after.

    Surprise attack. (Possibly) the best form of defence

    Posted 2 years ago #

  3. CycleAlex
    Member

    That already happens to some extent though, when Cllrs get the plans, to no particular success. Obviously six weeks overkill but one week before installation is surely useful (likely the lead-in time for getting contractors anyway).

    Posted 2 years ago #

  4. boothym
    Member

    Wondered if Boardwalk cafe guy had anything to say about this - sure enough he's out there on location calling it a hare-brained scheme by the council.

    However soon after he says it would be awesome if the closure led to Gypsy Brae and Forthquarter becoming one big park. There's hope for him yet...

    Posted 2 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    From 1 1/2 jobs Webber -

    “
    And she said she would be raising concerns over Spaces for People in parliament.

    "We're 15 months on now from the start of the pandemic and the council continues to put down new schemes. You have to challenge the legitimacy and the need for them, given the premise for the programme was social distancing. How many millions have we got vaccinated now? There's a further easing of restrictions on May 17 and the city is wanting to move on and get back to normality.

    “No-one is universally against all of it – the legislation and guidance had good intentions – but across the rest of Scotland people are taking them out and we're putting more in.”

    “

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/new-edinburgh-tory-msp-susan-webber-will-stay-on-as-city-councillor-while-taking-up-her-seat-at-holyrood-3232326

    Are places taking them out as ‘emergency over’?

    Apart from any idea that (much) better walk/cycle provision would be a sensible part of ‘build back better’, the inevitable reluctance for many people to use public transport for a while means there will be latent demand - especially if/when people go back to work after furlough.

    Webber (and others) need to explain very clearly why more (and better...) infrastructure for encouraging/enabling modal shift is a bad idea - and be challenged on it.

    Expect lots of arguments about ‘more people will be using cars because of Covid and want their roads back’.

    No doubt ‘levelling up’ includes giving poor people cars(?)

    Posted 2 years ago #

  6. gembo
    Member

    So continuing her job as a local councillor whilst drawing an MSP salary

    How much did the tories despise their own man Gordon Lindhurst to bump him to bottom of list?

    Maybe same thing will happen to Veberloonie!

    Posted 2 years ago #

  7. Rob
    Member

    The Gypsy Brae change looks brilliant. Removes the more hostile traffic towards Granton, the awkward corner crossing from Forthquarter Park and the awkward uphill slog return, without hurting anyone except those using the area as a bypass who are causing the problems.

    Hopefully it leads to the entrance to Forthquarter Park being opened up. The current barbed wire and burned out oil drums aren't all that welcoming, not to mention the stench of dog mess.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  8. ejstubbs
    Member

    @Rob: The Gypsy Brae change looks brilliant.

    Is there a link to that somewhere? It seemed to pop up on this thread last night as being something that everyone knew about. First I'd heard of it, and a bit confusing. Forum search turns up nothing on this thread about Gypsy Brae before last night, and nothing else on the Infrastructure forum for two years before that.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  9. Rob
    Member

    @ejstubbs first I'd heard of it too. I thought they were planning segregated lanes along there. I found more info after digging on twitter. I'll save you the various "Everyone's Angry" articles and give you the council page instead - https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/spaces-people-1/spaces-people-temporary-measure-planned/4

    Posted 2 years ago #

  10. Rob
    Member

    The proposed measures will see the

    • closure of West Shore Road from the last industrial premises at Gypsy Brae to Forth Quarter Park,
    • gates or bollards to maintain prom access for service vehicles,
    • retention of parking on either side of the closure, and the
    • introduction of parking and waiting restrictions on some sections.

    This means that the Granton Square side of West Shore Road will function as a cul-de-sac rather than a through road. This will separate industrial traffic and cars from people walking and wheeling at the entrance to the prom at Gyspy Brae.

    Improvements for cyclists on West Shore Road and West Harbour Road towards Granton Square will include parking and loading restrictions and several traffic calming measures. To deliver this we will

    • divert all through traffic via Waterfront Avenue
    • consider the removal of the Forth Quarter Park boundary fence on West Shore Road.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  11. chdot
    Admin

    OBVIOUSLY A GOOD THING

    BUT

    Why couldn’t it have been done years ago?

    Presume done with TTRO, so yet another thing for potential/probable removal because of the noisy objectors to anything that infringes their ‘rights’ - unless SG (persuaded by the Greens?) is bold enough to change the rules so that temporary can become permanent more easily?

    Posted 2 years ago #

  12. Stickman
    Member

    For <reasons> I’ve had to drive north along the length of Meadow Place Road every morning this week. I must have been very lucky, as on each occasion between 8am and 9am I saw no queues and my journey was unaffected by the new cycle lanes.

    Also drove up the A702/Comiston Road/Morningside Rd/Bruntsfield yesterday lunchtime. Again, no delays and I even got through the lights at Morningside station without any delays. Morningside Road looked busy with people shopping, there were a lot of parking spaces free and I was able to get parked at Bruntsfield to let me visit one of the businesses there.

    Is the trAFIc chAoS hiding from me?

    Posted 2 years ago #

  13. steveo
    Member

    The shadowy bike lobby cleared the streets for propaganda reasons!

    Posted 2 years ago #

  14. Frenchy
    Member

    Is the trAFIc chAoS hiding from me?

    It was on Drum Street this week.

    Curiously, there are no SfP projects on Drum Street.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  15. pringlis
    Member

    The traffic chaos in Comiston/Morningside really is selective memory. It only happens at rush hour, and it's always been like this. The spaces for people changes make little difference, it's the volume of traffic and the pinch points (Greenbank Church crossroads and Morningside Station) that slow things down.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  16. neddie
    Member

    The traffic chaos in Comiston/Morningside really is selective memory. It only happens at rush hour...

    Because traffic is inherently self-limiting and will expand to fill available capacity at pinch-points*.

    *Note it is impossible to eliminate pinch points, only to move them elsewhere

    Posted 2 years ago #

  17. neddie
    Member

    Back in the 1920s or 30s, someone calculated that the average speed of traffic in London would *always* be 8mph - any slower and the utility of the car is reduced and people start to walk or not make the journey, any faster and more people start to drive.

    Today, the average speed of traffic in London is something like 7.9mph - almost exactly as predicted 100 years ago...!

    Posted 2 years ago #

  18. ejstubbs
    Member

    Noticed the other day that that the barrier at the west end of Braidburn Terrace has finally been remodelled/replaced to allow bikes to exit adjacent to the footway rather than having to pass it on the right in the face of oncoming traffic turning in from Comiston Road. Two weeks short of a year since I first raised the issue with @edinhelp :(

    I haven't noticed any wands missing from lane defenders on the sections of Comiston Road that I've traversed recently. However, the orange one set directly in the tarmac at the start of the northbound lane at Fairmilehead crossroads has been missing for a while now. Whether it was removed with nefarious intention, demolished by an idiot drivist attempting to go straight on from the left turn lane, or the SfP team just decided it wasn't needed, I couldn't say.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  19. ejstubbs
    Member

    @chdot: I thought the SfP infrastructure changes were covered by ETROs rather than TTROs?

    Posted 2 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    Ah yes, I think that’s what I meant!

    Posted 2 years ago #

  21. CycleAlex
    Member

    They are currently using TTROs with a decision on what schemes will stay around via an ETRO to come in June I believe.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    Ok

    All too arcane to keep track of...

    Posted 2 years ago #

  23. chdot
    Admin

    Posted 2 years ago #

  24. mga
    Member

    Noticed tonight that the protected cycle lane on Queensferry Road (North of Dean Bridge) has been extended all the way round the corner. Oxford Terrace has been closed to facilitate this. Overall quite impressed by the lanes in that area.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  25. ejstubbs
    Member

    Cycled northbound through the remodelled section of Braid Road, past the Hermitage, for the second time yesterday. Spotted again what I thought I'd noticed the first time through there: the parking spaces marked on the plans, on the southbound side of the road, seem to be there on the ground, but with DYLs all the way down that side of the road, seem to be unusable. At least, that's my interpretation of the situation based on the ones on Comiston Road, where (with one puzzling, partial exception) the DYLs stop where there are marked parking spaces.

    The layout seems somewhat unsatisfactory there anyway, since accessing the parking spaces would require crossing the southbound cycle lane. On Comiston Road it goes footway-cycle lane-parking spaces, with lane defenders continuing to help segregate the cycle space from the motor vehicle space.

    Nonetheless, my recollection was that no motor vehicles passed through Braid Road while I was there, but reviewing my camera footage reveals that two cars did. Which probably goes to show how effective proper, protected cycle infrastructure is for alleviating motor vehicle anxiety.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  26. NiallA
    Member

    @ejstubbs - DYLs + parking spaces limits to blue badge holders?

    Posted 2 years ago #

  27. Frenchy
    Member

    DYLs + parking spaces limits to blue badge holders?

    And loading.

    I don't remember this being mentioned as the intention though, so it could be a result of a mixup between different versions of the plans.

    EDIT: Are they definitely parking spaces? The plans show gaps in the cycle segregation there, with the comment "Leave 19 metre gap in segregation for turning vehicles". Plans here: http://www.spokes.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/2104-Meadows_to_Greenbank_Quiet_Route-final-maps.pdf

    Posted 2 years ago #

  28. ejstubbs
    Member

    @Frenchy: I think Niall is right. The plans you linked (specifically MQR-C-GA-02-00-01 revision C) do show the DYLs as continuous on both sides, with labels pointing out "Gap in segregation for disabled parking" and "40.0 metres of unmarked parking bay" part way along the east side. So that's OK, then. (Until people realise that the DYLs aren't being enforced and park there anyway. Maybe...)

    Might be slightly less confusing to have actual signs saying "Disabled parking, loading & unloading only"? But I'm not sure there's actually a standard DoT approved sign for that.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  29. Frenchy
    Member

    Got you, I was looking further north.

    That also might be why they're adjacent to the kerb, to make it easier for folk to get out directly onto the pavement.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  30. chdot
    Admin

    This?

    Plus painted symbols on road?

    Posted 2 years ago #

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