Covid-19 issues have delayed this project would have been Less is More?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Scottish Govmt announces £10m for pop up cycle/walking lanes
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Posted 3 years ago #
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Plans to
turn an old rail route into a green corridor fordo anything for pedestrians and cyclists have been held up because the council istoo busy on the Spaces for People programme.having to deal with objections from people who don’t want any change anywhere.FTFY.
Some of the councillors/MSPs complaining about delays are also the ones causing delays in the past.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Excellent analysis @stickman
A mad old world for sure
Posted 3 years ago # -
Crosspost from the other topic:
A bit rich for the Tories to spend all their effort whipping up bad blood and trying their damnedest to delay Spaces for People and then start running articles complaining that the difficulty delivering Spaces for People means the council has dropped the ball on other cycling projects that they also don't really support..
Posted 3 years ago # -
Posted 3 years ago #
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Now, as the council approaches the end of the 18-month TTRO period, city planners are looking at extending the Spaces for People schemes for another 18-month period using Experimental Traffic Regulation Orders (ETROs).
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Posted 3 years ago # -
https://twitter.com/janderson_news/status/1403054420212998146?s=21
The figurehead of Edinburgh’s controversial Spaces for People scheme has hit back at critics - saying the council is not waging a war on motorists but is sticking up for the 45 per cent of the city’s residents who don’t have access to a car.
Posted 3 years ago # -
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"The Conservative group has never said that we only back policies which support car use, but have repeatedly called for a more balanced approach to transport issues
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Hahaha
Is the “45%” (of) adults?
Posted 3 years ago # -
41% of Edinburgh households had no access to a car or van in 2019, the most recent figures available (See Table 4). Not sure where the 45% figure is from. The only other reference to 45% I can find is in a December 2020 tweet from Sustrans. I REALLY hope someone at the Council checked this figure before putting that article out.
Posted 3 years ago # -
So household can be single person and adult(s) with children, etc.
Any figures for people in households with or without cars?
Does “access to” include car clubs (number will be relatively small presumably).
Posted 3 years ago # -
I'm a bit confused by the Rodney Street thing--there was an unprotected lane before, but now it is there, it has taken a lane at the junction?
I like the look at the lane, but am a little nervous about being left hooked if I can't get over in time?(I've only been on that street in a car so far.)
Posted 3 years ago # -
IIRC, when I've been asked if my household has access to a car I've understood membership of a car club still counts as "no". I think the thing has to be right outside your place of residence and for your household's exclusive use for it to count as "yes". (I don't agree with this, which is why I remember it.)
Posted 3 years ago # -
@the canuck
I'm a bit confused by the Rodney Street thing--there was an unprotected lane before, but now it is there, it has taken a lane at the junction?I think the issue here is with Canonmills rather than Rodney Street. From Canonmills up to the Broughton Road traffic lights used to be two lanes - left turn for Broughton Road, straight on/right turn for Rodney Street/Eyre Place. It also had an advisory bike lane in at the left which, in my experience, was rarely blocked.
This arrangement allowed for two queues of traffic at the lights. Now, with SfP, it's down to one lane for all traffic, and queues could well stretch back far enough at peak times to interfere with the traffic lighted Inverleith Row/Brandon Terrace/Huntly Street junction. (Hopefully, they've removed the option to turn into Eyre Place, as I could see a car waiting to turn right against a flow of traffic would stuff up the junction from the north good and proper.)
I've not biked the new SfP layout, but I would be concerned about a left hook if I was heading straight on to Rodney Street from the cyclelane. On the old arrangement when heading straight on I always chose to be in with the car traffic, but I appreciate that isn't for everyone, so there is a risk that folk are lured into the cyclelane and confusion reigns over priority once they get to the traffic lights.
As a subscript: Rodney Street has only ever been one lane of traffic each way, vast wide lanes with more than enough space for segregated bikelanes, road traffic, and wider pavement. The road narrows as it becomes Bellevue on the way up to the East Claremont Street junction, which has led to the SfP painted ped area narrowing on the way up the hill (which looks odd to people who want to find issues with the scheme as opposed to folks who perhaps imagine what it would look like if the SfP ped area was all paving stones).
Posted 3 years ago # -
No idea how the difference between households and adults would shake out. Would assume children disproportionately live in households with cars. Imagining student flats have very little car access. I don't think 41 vs 45% is an important difference either way.
Sfp future apparently pretty good (outside of shopping streets)
Posted 3 years ago # -
Edinburgh cycle lanes: Online ‘bot’ submitted 18,000 fake responses
Desperate stuff
Posted 3 years ago # -
Posted 3 years ago #
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@chdot/toomanybikes if you're using the 2011 census, you can work out approximate total cars from the access to car percentages section:
Total households: 223,051
42.7% x 1 car = 95,243
14.6% x 2 car = 65,131
2.8% x 3* car = 18,737Total cars = 179,111
Then in the population section you have 404,424 total over 16, giving 0.44 cars per adult.
Of course, that is all City of Edinburgh local authority including commuter towns and suburbs, so maybe it isn't all that relevant to the conversation about central SfP measures.
* category is 3+, so not exact.
Posted 3 years ago # -
“404,424 total over 16, giving 0.44 cars per adult”
Thanks for doing the calculations.
Also interested in adding in the under 26s.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Population including under 16s is 476,626 giving 0.376 cars per person.
Unfortunately, working out for specific schemes e.g. Leith LTN involves adding up all the individual postcodes.
Posted 3 years ago # -
The census website has changed recently, in some ways not for the better, but you can now make multiple selections and download the data from:
https://www.scotlandscensus.gov.uk/search-the-census/#/location/OA?title=Output%20Area%202011
For the output areas wholly within the A road triangle west of Constitution Street there's 56.6% of 2961 households with no cars/vans. To the east it's 46.4% of 1278.
Posted 3 years ago # -
The math seems suspect, e.g. 100% have access to a car despite a ratio of 0.25 cars per person in this household?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Great to see Safe Cycling South Edinburgh out canvassing support for SFP measures in Morningside this morning..
https://twitter.com/Cyclesouthedin/status/1403607925021724672?s=20
Posted 3 years ago # -
In tenement areas it can be as high as 60 to 70% with no access to a motor vehicle. These are also the most densely populated areas of the city.
Posted 3 years ago # -
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The route is in the top 5% of cycle routes in London in terms of having the greatest potential for people to cycle, said TfL. The changes that have been introduced so far have led to an increase in the numbers of people cycling – cycle counts carried out by TfL along the upgraded CS8 route show that up to 2,650 people are using the route every day, with an average increase of 30% on weekdays compared to the 2014-19 average.
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https://www.bikebiz.com/tfl-seeking-feedback-on-upgrades-to-cs8-cycle-route/amp/
Posted 3 years ago # -
Dear councillors,
We live in Edinburgh. We walk, we wheel, we cycle, we take the bus, we drive. We travel to work, shops, schools, hospitals, parks. We all care about this city. We all have different travel needs and priorities. We all want Edinburgh to be a city where its residents can travel freely whoever they are and wherever they need to go. Where people can breathe clean air, live active lifestyles and support local businesses.
Our city could be so much better for everyone.
Every person making the choice to travel more sustainably in the city is freeing up vital space – making life easier for those who have a genuine need to use a car. Choosing to move this way aligns with Edinburgh’s City Mobility and climate goals, and enables people to stay active as they go about their daily life.
Spaces for People has been a massive step in the right direction. We look to you for continued leadership and ask that you be bold. We look to you to help the citizens of Edinburgh travel sustainably, not because they feel it’s the right thing to do, but because it’s the easiest option. By showing leadership and incentivising people to walk, wheel or cycle, you as councillors are helping more people make that choice.
On 17th June, the Transport and Environment Committee will consider the Spaces for People measures put in place during the pandemic. Which ones to keep, which ones to change and which ones to remove. The debate around the Spaces for People programme has often been polarised and unhelpful. Yet many of the measures adopted by the council – including school streets, cycle lanes and pavement widening in town centres – have provided vital safe space for residents accessing local services.
You may have been frustrated by the Spaces for People process. You may be unhappy with the plastic wands, or the space taken up by the new cycle lanes, or the uneven distribution of the measures. We are writing to ask you to think long term. The Spaces for People programme has been a small step on the road to a more sustainable Edinburgh. What happens next is up to you.
Over the next 18 months, you will be making critical decisions about the future of Edinburgh’s transport network. As different measures are trialled, we are asking you to keep an open mind. As our civic leaders, we are asking you to work together across political lines to create a city designed for all the people that live in it. We ask you to work together to create a transport network that is genuinely inclusive, taking account of the big picture and the crises we must turn our attention to coming out of Covid.
We know that as councillors you want to represent and respect the views of the people who live in this city. We all live in Edinburgh; and we all want it to be a better place.
Signed
The members of the Better Edinburgh for Sustainable Travel network, including:
Spokes Porty
Blackford Safe Routes
Low Traffic Corstorphine
Car Free Holyrood
Cleaner Greener Corstorphine
Newington Safe Routes
Davidson’s Mains Primary School Clean Air and Active Travel Group
Safer Greener Silverknowes
Hart’s Cyclery
Bikes for Refugees
Spokes South Edinburgh
Leith LTN
Posted 3 years ago # -
“freeing up vital space – making life easier for those who have a genuine need to use a car”
This is of course true - and important that Cllrs (and others) try to grasp.
“genuine need” may be a challenging idea for some…
Posted 3 years ago # -
People who oppose S4P should genuinely try to explain why users of one form of transport should be prioritised/favoured over the rest.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Is it true though? This part I've struggled with so far. Induced demand suggests if there is capacity for people who need to use a car, it'll be used up by people who don't until it's roughly as easy as it is currently.
Posted 3 years ago # -
RESEARCH REPORT: “Stealing Our Cities” – City space being overwhelmingly used for private cars
Posted 3 years ago #
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