@Frenchy, thanks, I stand corrected, useful to know.
I found a doc earlier which says TROs are not required for mandatory cycle lanes to be implemented. So why do we not have more of them?
CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 14years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
That's a (relatively) recent change - happened in 2016, and the council is definitely putting in more than they used to. The ones on Chesser Avenue were put in like that when the road was being resurfaced anyway, for example.
I'd guess the majority of Edinburgh's mandatory cycle lanes were actually built in the last couple of years as part of resurfacing projects.
Some of the ones which were built prior to 2016 apparently aren't enforceable either, since the council didn't actually do a TRO. Newhaven Place is an example.
With my jaded cynic hat on (an increasingly common occurrence these days) I would like to point out that despite all the noise about temporary cycle lanes there has been zero progress on many permanent cycle lanes.
One example close to me is the segregated lanes just east of Jock's Lodge heading towards Portobello. Work started on these in February as part of road resurfacing, then halted when lockdown commenced. Nearly four months hence, the resurfacing and the lanes remain unfinished. Barriers all over the place, pedestrians have to use them as much of footway closed off, road has different levels with hefty bumps up and down, etc.
No idea when these will be completed but no sign of any work starting.
If CEC cannot prioritise schemes like this that could enhance safety on a busy road, then it shows that good intentions do not deliver improvements in a reasonable time frame. Personally I'm using this project as a bellwether to determine if they really mean business or not.
Cockburn St and Victoria St now closed to vehicles.
That's good. There were a lot of vehicles using Victoria Street when I was out for a walk yesterday evening.
Planters are up at Victoria Street and the High St. Somewhat odd at the moment however as there's zero road closed or pedestrian/cycle zone signs to accompany them.
But a number of business owners fear the plans could impact trade, including several in Stockbridge where footpaths will be widened on both sides of Raeburn Place, Deanhaugh Street and Hamilton Place adjacent to commercial properties.Roddy Watson, who owns the Gifted gift shop in Raeburn Place in Stockbridge, started a petition on Wednesday against the proposals and estimates he has between 425 and 450 signatures so far - mainly from members of the public.
He says nearly half of his customers are older people and if they want to buy a few gifts they would need the car to do so, and that his business has already suffered during the first part of 2020 because of gas works restricting vehicle access at one end of the road.
“He says nearly half of his customers are older people and if they want to buy a few gifts they would need the car to do so”
BIG gifts?
Post pop up presumably -
“
Bus lanes restored in plans for new cycling corridor to Edinburgh Royal Infirmary
Active travel project will put cycleway into Inch Park
“
Yes - temporary scheme will apparently be in place until the permanent one is built (even if that's beyond the initial 18 month TTRO).
@chdot, novelty fridges, obvs.
I mean, you need a car for buying a fridge, any fule no dat.
I went for a walk around the closed roads in City Centre just now... Victoria Street and Cockburn Street aren't actually closed yet though as CycleAlex reported, but with a bit of manoeuvring of the planters and a sign or two it should be done. Tomorrow?
Waverley Bridge is still closed at the junction with Prince's Street, but there were two cars in the closed section. As I was passing, a police van appeared and I chuckled at the imminent telling off that the drivers (who were still in their cars) would get. However, the driver of the van merely turned around and drove away again!
One of the proposals was for a Low Traffic Neighbourhood in East Craigs (making Craigs Road a culdesac).
These has created quite a reaction from people whose car journeys would be impacted.
The local LibDem MSP (you know the one who poses with a gas mask kn St John's Road) has chipped with a petition saying that this consultation should be stopped so that a 'Full Public Consultation' can take place.
He's not yet responded to my tweet asking how he would propose weighting the responses from those who want their streets turn into culdesacs so their kids can play on their street and those that live further along Craigs Road (or Bughtlin) who live in their own culdesacs but want to drive along other's streets.
https://twitter.com/hank_chief/status/1282353172896518149?s=19
Maybe gas mask PG TIPS has joined Lib Dems so he can fall out with them because he is anti-Semitic and can start a group LibDems Against the witch hunt?
"Air pollution in West Edinburgh is terrible. The council must do something about it."
"OK, here's an idea that's worked really well elsewhere. We will try it on a temporary basis, OK?"
"NO! THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT!"
I wouldn't read if you have anything of value near you, like your sanity...
Quite happy with their own quiet, traffic free area but no qualms about then driving wherever they like and not caring about the consequences for others.
Is this true (as proposed)?
“
The measures affect the local secondary school, and while we all want as few as possible to use cars to drop off pupils, many parents still do. The measures will make an already hazardous time even more dangerous, forcing drivers to do three-point turns in addition to the drop-off, making it more dangerous for those who do cycle or walk to the school.
“
How many secondary students need/want/are dropped off at the gate??
'The measures affect the local secondary school, and while we all want as few as possible to use cars to drop off pupils, many parents still do.'
Well here's crazy idea - maybe we should do something to make more people comfortable walking or cycling to school. Perhaps we could reduce the volume of traffic in the area. Could even call it a low traffic neighbourhood.
Actually what a ridiculous idea. Wouldn't want to mildly inconvenience drivers seal off the area.
How many secondary students need/want/are dropped off at the gate??
There will be some. And if there are some then potentially every student could be. Therefore we need to assume that will happen. (At least that seems to be the thinking of many people)
Majority of secondary school pupils get there without being dropped off. If pushed I might even wonder about bedtime routines, devices in bed with them (phones) and wake up times if there was a consistent parental drop off.
However, within the minority there will be others who are just under the two miles so not entitled to free transport. As some secondaries have wider catchments than others.
Others will perhaps have a disability. So not all clear cut.
But the point I am intending to make is that Secondary schools do not have this issue very much so the author is perhaps BARMY. Primary schools most certainly do have drop off congestion and have to paint lines to try to stop parents parking at gates. If all the parents dropping off kids stopped doing this then the children could all walk. This is where bike buses are such good ideas. Big group of children shifted by smaller group of heroic adults.
Just had the local Lib Dem newsletter through the door - I see that Cllr Neil Ross is calling for the very short section of Braid Road that has been temporarily closed to allow for social distancing to be reopened to "local traffic".
On the issue on removing parking from town centres. Some interesting peer-reviewed research from the historic city of Krakow into the removal of parking spaces in the city centre, which concludes:
What is extremely important is that a very high percentage of owners - 75% for all locations in total, would not want to restore the previous state. A very high degree of satisfaction with the quality of analysed areas (on average 83%) is also observed among the customers of the facilities located in these areas. They are primarily satisfied with the absence of cars in these areas, while enjoying the presence of structural landscaping and historic buildings, as well as a unique atmosphere of the place. Moreover, only a negligible share of respondents see problems in accessing these facilities. Currently, respondents get to these facilities mainly on foot or by public transport, visiting facilities less frequently than once a week, or occasionally, when carrying out other activities in this area of the city.
Research also concludes:
the application of restrictions generally did not cause significant changes in the size of income or the changes in income are not identified with the restrictions. And even if the implementation of the restrictions did not produce a
significant increase in the income of the owners, it generally did not cause negative impact on the revenue and this is what the owners are always most concerned about.
Group Psychology studies show that during crisis people pull together and develop a shared identity
However this can be undermined by political rhetoric.
There already is a number of parents dropping off at Craigmount HS and then u-turning either in the school entrance or further up the hill. The road layout isnt changing here.
“The road layout isnt changing here.“
All nonsense then(?)
“However this can be undermined by political rhetoric.“
Is that study finding or personal observation?
“
Of particular note: Hidalgo's anti-car plans were not popular *when she proposed them.* The city went and just did them and they became popular after the people got to experience them. No years-long community input meetings, transportation consultant studies etc etc
“
My summary of a summary piece in this month’s Psychologist by Prof Stephen Reicher up at St Andrews
Ntontis et al (2020) Endurance or decline of emergent groups following a flood disaster Int Journal of Disaster Risk Reduction
Is the pertinent reference.
They have of course written a whole book quickly
Together Apart
Paperback from Sage publishers
Or
Free download at
Socialsciencespace.com/wp-content/uploads/Together-Apart-Complete-ms.pdf
some interesting commentary on collectivism there, gembo-san
cheers
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