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Scottish Govmt announces £10m for pop up cycle/walking lanes

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  1. CycleAlex
    Member

    From the delegated decisions log:

    D126 Spaces for People Project Approval (note: not proceeding with South
    Bridge and George IV Bridge at this time.) 19/06/2020
    Well that would explain why it was taking a while for the lanes on George IV to turn up... https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/s24847/6.1%20-%20Adaptation%20and%20Renewal%20Programme.pdf

    There's also a report at committee next week for approval to direct award an extra £2.6m (total £4.1m) for equipment to deliver the temp measures. Includes an extra £1m on wands/kerbs/bollards, £1m on bus-stop bypass materials and £100k on planters.

    Looks like it might also be a while before the new segregated routes appear:

    5.3 Delivery for some materials can be achieved in two to four weeks, however, the supply timeline for critical kerb/segregation units will not commence until 20 August 2020 and will run for up six months.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  2. Stickman
    Member

    Motion by Councillor Macinnes – Spaces for People Initiative

    “Committee:
    Welcomes the continued work to deliver the Spaces for People initiative designed to deliver better conditions for safe social distancing as Edinburgh moves towards recovery from the international pandemic, including economic recovery

    Recognises that there is growing concern among some business owners, particularly in our local high streets across the capital, that removal of car parking spaces will have a detrimental impact on the number of customers accessing their businesses.

    Acknowledges that there is a growing body of evidence, from UK and international examples, that implementation of such schemes often meet with great concern but that in practice can lead to better trading conditions for many businesses.

    Requests a report, within two cycles, which describes that evidence and indicates its relevance to both the Spaces for People initiative and existing transport policy in the city”.

    https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=135&MId=5516

    Posted 3 years ago #

  3. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    22 Jul for St John's Road Phase 1 measures to go in. Some talk about cycle lanes in Phase 2, but also worrying talk of needing on-street parking and there being 'space in the road' for cycling. Will keep pushing; we have the Lord Provost on our side!

    Posted 3 years ago #

  4. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Requests a report, within two cycles, which describes that evidence and indicates its relevance to both the Spaces for People initiative and existing transport policy in the city”.

    Um

    a) a bit late

    b) WHY wasn’t evidence assembled LONG before the recent funding availability, ESPECIALLY considering all the Roseburn nonsense.

    SHOCKING

    ThisIsEdinburgh

    Posted 3 years ago #

  5. Frenchy
    Member

    Devil's advocate: It could already have been assembled, and just needs to be updated with recent evidence from elsewhere?

    Posted 3 years ago #

  6. Frenchy
    Member

    Meanwhile in Perth:

    Blocking through traffic on a residential street parallel to an A-road is “effectively splitting the community in two”, but using that street as a rat run is A-OK!

    Balhousie Street, for reference.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    “and just needs to be updated with recent evidence from elsewhere?“

    Possibly, possibly - BUT, then, SHOULDN'T need 2 Committee cycles.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  8. Frenchy
    Member

    Devil's advocate (contd): The active travel team is pretty busy at the moment?

    Posted 3 years ago #

  9. chdot
    Admin

    That’s as maybe

    BUT

    “relevance to both the Spaces for People initiative and existing transport policy in the city”

    SO

    SHOULDN'T be the responsibility of AT people.

    That’s ALWAYS been problem with CEC -

    As soon as anyone mentions walking or cycling, responsibility gets shunted to the overworked and understaffed ‘not important bit of Transport’ section.

    MOST ‘Transport’ people are still obsessed with roads, cars and vehicle “flow”.

    If NOW isn’t the time to change things, then there never will be a time (until it’s too late).

    Posted 3 years ago #

  10. LaidBack
    Member

    Agree. City centre car use still quiet - particularly on George IV Bridge - but pedestrian traffic increasing. Sometimes people walk along central reservation.

      D126 Spaces for People Project Approval (note: not proceeding with South
      Bridge and George IV Bridge at this time.) 19/06/2020

    Ideal time to go to next bit of remodelling surely? Remove the central strip and divi up the road space for walking and cycling as proposed before lockdown.
    City can survive this route being closed at moment easily. Why wait longer?

    Posted 3 years ago #

  11. neddie
    Member

    The important thing for George IV bridge is to get the bus-gate in on Bank St.

    Once that’s in, we won’t even need bike lanes (I reckon)

    Posted 3 years ago #

  12. Stickman
    Member

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/new-plans-cycle-segregation-lanes-across-edinburgh-unveiled-2917326

    Posted 3 years ago #

  13. chdot
    Admin

    “

    We’ve already introduced a range of improvements in areas around the city which are making it easier for people to travel and take exercise while maintaining physical distancing, and they’ve been really well received.

    “

    To ‘us’ the bit after the , is important, BUT is there much to substantiate the rest of the sentence?

    When this (“£10m for pop up cycle/walking lanes”) is all over, it will be interesting to see how much was spent on staff time, consultants, consultation and STUFF.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  14. neddie
    Member

    I don’t understand why they’re starting all these new segregated routes WHEN THEY HAVEN’T FINISHED THE COUNTLESS ONES THEY ALREADY STARTED

    Rrrrraaaaaaagh!

    Posted 3 years ago #

  15. crowriver
    Member

    @neddie, exactly.

    Still waiting for the one east of Jock's Lodge to be completed. Work ceased in March...

    Posted 3 years ago #

  16. CycleAlex
    Member

    @chdot £4.1m on materials and people to install said materials. £0.9m on presumably staff/consultants/anything else. https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/s24838/6.11%20-%20Spaces%20for%20People%20Further%20Contract%20Waiver%20for%20Material%20Orders%20and%20Contract%20Services.pdf

    @neddie Given the seemingly large lag time for materials, I don't really see the harm with getting all these plans out to Cllrs so that once things have arrived they can get them out immediately?

    @crowriver Fountainbridge area resurfacing still hasn't restarted either so I assume their contractor isn't ready/is having issues.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  17. CycleAlex
    Member

    Update on some town centre measures: https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/spaces-people-1/spaces-people-temporary-measure-planned/3?documentId=12988&categoryId=20299

    St John's Road, Corstorphine: installation on Wednesday 22 July
    Widen narrow pavements on north side from Templeland Road to Victor Park Terrace to enable suitable social distancing. South side from opposite Templeland Road to Farmer’s Autocare, with the retention of some loading bays, to enable suitable social distancing. Both sides between St Ninian’s Road and Station Road, with areas of loading retained to provide space for deliveries to and collections from local businesses.

    Street clutter and unnecessary pedestrian guardrail will be removed
    All bus stops remain in their current locations but may be moved out at a slightly later date to reflect the new temporary kerb line if necessary.

    Lane for cyclists in either direction on the road

    Many existing parking and servicing bays will be kept in place.

    Gorgie/ Dalry: installation on Thursday 23 July

    Widen pavements on both sides under the railway bridge at Robertson Avenue, relocating the bus stop on the south side to an area with wider footways to aid queuing.

    Extend pavement outside the busy supermarket and pharmacy on north side between Smithfield Street and Wheatfield Street, with the loading bay relocated eastwards.

    Increase pavement width on both sides in the area of the railway bridge at McLeod Street.
    Widen pavement on the south side between Ardmillan Terrace and Gorgie City Farm.

    Provide additional pavement space at the busy crossing points at the Gorgie Road/ Dalry Road junction.

    Widen pavement adjacent to Dalry Cemetery which is currently very narrow.

    Relocat the loading bay to widen pavement on south side between Orwell Place and Orwell Terrace.

    Portobello High Street temporary measures: installation on Friday 24 July

    Widened footways on the north-east side between opposite Fishwives’ Causeway and Beach Lane to provide additional capacity for social distancing and to aid businesses reopening.

    Retention of parking spaces outside the Town Hall and off-peak parking on the north east side of the High Street east of Brighton Place to support local businesses.

    Significant widening of the south west footway from Brighton Place to Portobello surgery, including very narrow section outside property numbers 225 - 251.

    All bus stops are retained.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  18. steveo
    Member

    Just as well this wasn't some sort of crises that needed urgert action...

    Posted 3 years ago #

  19. Stickman
    Member

    https://drscottarthur.scot/2020/07/20/the-councils-formal-response-to-the-consultation-on-the-proposed-temporary-changes-to-comiston-road-buckstone-pentland-terrace

    The consultation response shows that the Tories basically oppose anything being done anywhere.

    https://drscottarthur.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/comiston-rd-cycle-plan-e28093-final-consultation-response-1.pdf

    Posted 3 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Governments must look to what they can do through rates and loans. But the council must play its part too. New plans to completely remove parking and loading from high streets threaten to make recovery extremely difficult for many of these treasured local businesses.

    Provision must be made to enable people to use pavements safely, maintaining social distancing. But measures intended to enable people to return to shops must not put those shops out of business.

    Daniel Johnson is Scottish Labour MSP for Edinburgh Southern

    “

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/save-our-shops-edinburghs-parking-plans-could-make-it-harder-businesses-when-they-most-need-our-help-daniel-johnson-msp-2918915

    https://www.parliament.scot/msps/currentmsps/98553.aspx

    Posted 3 years ago #

  21. gembo
    Member

    That Mp owns Studio One shop in Morningside

    Posted 3 years ago #

  22. steveo
    Member

    own 100% of the issued share capital of Stripe Retail Ltd, a company providing retail consulting and advisory services

    Depending on how you want to look at it, he's either an expert on the subject or biased towards the status quo

    Posted 3 years ago #

  23. CycleAlex
    Member

    @Stickman Having previously been relaxed and ready for bed, reading those responses has made me deeply angry. I feel bad for anyone at CEC who has to put up with that nonsense every day.

    Why does Cllr Webber think Edinburgh is unique in the world and not suitable for bus stop bypasses?

    Why is a pedestrian needing to cross a cycle lane terrifying but needing to cross a 40mph road is perfectly fine and safe?

    Why is Cllr Cook making stuff up about bus lanes being removed?

    Not a lot of people cycle there already? Well I wonder why. It’s almost as if cycling uphill on a 40mph road with parked cars blocking you is downright terrifying for most people. [rule 2] [rule 2].

    Fairmilehead CC. Just... eugh. At least I got a laugh out of the fact they seem to think CEC need committee approval to move a bus stop.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  24. acsimpson
    Member

    Depending on how you want to look at it, he's either an expert on the subject or biased towards the status quo

    @Steveo, Could the tail be wagging the dog on this one. Are shop keepers so convinced that 90% of their business parks outside that they wont employ a consultant who speaks the truth?

    Posted 3 years ago #

  25. chdot
    Admin

    “Are shop keepers so convinced that 90% of their business parks outside“

    Some seem to be. Perhaps not 90%, who knows - they can’t unless they have more than anecdotes.

    I remember some years ago some Haymarket shops said they got most of their business from ‘out of town’, so most customers ‘have to drive’.

    That may or may not be true.

    If it is, and the same goes for Morningside Road etc, it would seem there is not much point in their shops being specifically where they are - especially in these days of internet shopping and next day deliveries.

    Might be better to ask all their customers why they shop there and how they got there.

    Might make some realise they’d be better off in a shed somewhere. or that ‘most’ customers aren’t actually car-dependent.

    Might just be that things are the way they are for the convenience of the owners and therefore everyone else should fit in and if they think that parking is the most important thing then they should get their way because it’s not fair that the cycle lobby and the hostile council has a wider vision.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  26. chdot
    Admin

    Elsewhere -

    “

    Proposals for up to 80 car parking spaces on Elcho Green in North Berwick were met with fierce opposition from locals, and a petition opposing the move gained almost 4,000 signatures.

    The plans, part of the government Spaces for People initiative which gives local authorities funding for temporary social distancing measures, were designed to reduce pressure on North Berwick High Street.

    “

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/council/north-berwick-green-space-car-park-plans-suspended-after-local-campaign-2919084

    Posted 3 years ago #

  27. Rob
    Member

    "If it is, and the same goes for Morningside Road etc, it would seem there is not much point in their shops being specifically where they are - especially in these days of internet shopping and next day deliveries."

    I was thinking about this the other day. What if the out of town shopping places/car parks had a unit which was divided up into smaller units for small businesses. Would the businesses who believe they depend on the parking move there?

    Posted 3 years ago #

  28. crowriver
    Member

    "Might just be that things are the way they are for the convenience of the owners and therefore everyone else should fit in and if they think that parking is the most important thing then they should get their way because it’s not fair that the cycle lobby and the hostile council has a wider vision."

    This. In spades.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  29. gembo
    Member

    Owners parking outside and nipping out when the wardens come, is what this is all about. All businesses would go bust if owners had to pay for parking

    Posted 3 years ago #

  30. acsimpson
    Member

    Perhaps we should all be allowed to decide what happens to the road directly outside the property which we own. I know what I would be doing to my 10m of roadspace. I might feel a little sorry for the neighbours when they can no longer drive past my house but I'm sure they would understand.

    /toungeincheek

    Posted 3 years ago #

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