CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Scottish Govmt announces £10m for pop up cycle/walking lanes

(988 posts)
  • Started 3 months ago by HankChief
  • Latest reply from acsimpson

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    “McLellan's article is nothing but negativity.”

    Call me heretical but..

    Actually Mr. McLellan’s piece is quite good (assuming his info about the background to various studies is accurate).

    The problem is ‘all sides’ (including ‘us’) see things as relatively binary.

    ‘The traders have a right to a rapid return to normality - which includes expectations of driving/parking’.

    ‘The world would be a better place if everyone walked/cycled’.

    Presumably the cones are a prelude to some ‘works’. Parking is being removed to allow for necessary redistribution of space.

    Is anything being done to discourage through traffic?

    I lived on Morningside Road for 10 years and saw shops come and go, plus some there before me and still in business.

    There was much sadness/annoyance at the closure of the fish shop, but I’m sure Cook makes much more money (from many more customers).

    It was also curious how some shops survived with (apparently) next to no customers.

    The toy shop has outlasted Toys ‘r’ Us! I’m sure Safeway (now Waitrose) put some shops out of business.

    The number of charity shops (rivalling Stockbridge) is a clear sign of changing retail patterns.

    (Will charity shops survive Covid?)

    These days there are fewer certainties than a year ago.

    It’s good that CEC currently has councillors who actually want to try things, I just hope they are not let down too much by CEC’s ability to deliver...

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  2. Arellcat
    Moderator

    You might compare it with Penicuik town centre. It wasn't until 1984 that the original John Street was pedestrianised, and the A701 re-routed around it very much like Potterrow, a swooping curve of wide, if not D2 standard, tarmac, encircling the new shopping centre construction with its own car park, and another car park on the far side of the road where Lidl now is.

    John Street should be a perfect street for people with eateries, coffee houses, toy shops, clothing shops, beauty salons and so on. It has nice block paving, with nice seaty things everywhere. But the place is absolutely dead. I cycled along it yesterday and it basically has a chemist and a brace of charity shops that may or may not still be trading. If people wanted to drive, they would use the car park just on the other side of the shopping centre.

    The High Street, which is literally just around the corner from John St, has the chippies, the pub, the Storehouse, a flower shop, even a vet, and it's had its own layby since time immemorial (or at least the 1960s). The lay-by isn't very busy. Either everyone is rushing past on their way to the Sainsbury's or the Asda at Straiton, or people just don't need cars that much.

    Since the High Street is the A701, and the A701 is one of my main routes for cycling, I have thought a lot about why it's popular and John Street isn't. And I wonder if it's not about vehicles but about people, and how people collectively, if unconsciously 'make' a place. John Street isn't just dead, it's foreboding. It's wider than Rose Street, and the buildings aren't more than a couple of storeys, so it's not a dark alley or anything, but it has no identity anymore, no vibe to it.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    “how people collectively, if unconsciously 'make' a place. John Street ... has no identity anymore, no vibe to it”

    Yep.

    A wholly vehicle free Morningside Road would be quite something.

    Buses and bikes only outside ‘rush’ hours??

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  4. Stickman
    Member

  5. algo
    Member

    That's a great article - from a now independent ex-Tory councillor - I don't know much about her previous positions on such things but is that an epiphany or has she always been pro active travel?

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

  7. Stickman
    Member

    Due to safety concerns for pedestrians & cyclists Crewe Rd South between Orchard Brae roundabout & Carrington Rd is CLOSED to traffic (local access only). Pls follow diversions or use alternative route

    https://twitter.com/halosler/status/1288845683773054977?s=21

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    From thread

    SGN are doing works there at the junction & there were issues with pedestrians & cyclists crossing safely

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  9. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    So CEC have diverted a bunch of traffic onto Quiet Route 20? Way to go. I know QRs are generally a bit rule 2 but IMO QR20 is one of the more useful ones

    Posted 1 week ago #
  10. MediumDave
    Member

    @algo

    First up Ashley has always been a very responsive ward councillor to me, both in the Tory days and afterwards. I think becoming an independent is very welcome.

    Personal story: I was canvassed by Ashley a few years back before she was elected as a Tory.

    She certainly wasn't noticeably pro active travel then and was somewhat bamboozled by my eager desire for the council to massively raise parking permit and parking charges, introduce a congestion charge and so get rid of all the cars clogging the roads. However Ashley also had some kind of minder/agent with her who I think (amongst other duties) was there to make sure she kept to the party line.

    I even eagerly accepted the offer to fill in a questionnaire about the Tories but I thought it fair to warn them they wouldn't like the answers.

    Funnily enough they never gave me the questionnaire in the end.

    Posted 1 week ago #
  11. algo
    Member

    @MediumDave - thanks for that - very interesting. I wonder if now the shackles of the Whip have been removed she's been able to think for herself and actually analyse the evidence. I was really pleased to see her mention Paris.

    The other day while (probably in vain) trying to make the case for more liveable shopping neighbourhoods to people who are convinced the only custom comes from people who drive, I was told all the cities/towns that were mentioned were not relevant to Scotland because they weren't in Scotland (except Glasgow). I found that a disappointing view but the "Edinburgh isn't x" view is difficult to shift, because people view characteristics of the city as immutable and hence the current paradigm for delivery/shopping/parking also. I'm pleased that someone is showing how other cities - however different they might be - are being cited.

    Posted 1 week ago #
  12. gembo
    Member

    @algo, Edinburgh has changed so much over the years that any argument requiring no change is most likely being made by a conservative.

    I love none of it relates to Scotland as the cities mentioned are not in Scotland apart from Glasgow.

    Posted 1 week ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    Yeah but Glasgow is flat and has a big river in the middle so it’s really more like London.

    Lots of people cycle there, so it’s right that people cycle in Glasgow.

    Edinburgh is different

    Already more people cycle in Edinburgh, so obviously that’s enough...

    Posted 1 week ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

  15. chdot
    Admin

  16. Roibeard
    Member

    I suspect the beg buttons were always fake in many (all?) of these locations. The pedestrian phase was simply on a sequence, rather than actively requested by the buttons (cf top of MMW into Forrest Road). This may just reveal how prevalent the practice may have been...

    Robert

    Posted 1 week ago #
  17. gembo
    Member

    Still better to press the button than just stand there hoping, like you see some people doing (the children of people who used to wait til the bus stopped and the doors opened before they got their change out, Fex sake, some of us have our work to go to, get a feckin move on)

    Posted 1 week ago #
  18. Trixie
    Member

    See that daft, wee, pretendy traffic island they've stuck at the foot of Craigmillar Castle Road? I was wary when it was a proposal and now it's there I can confirm it's quite positively dangerous. The dug and I wander that way and traffic turning from ODR invariably does it at breakneck speed. As does anything joining ODR. Just no. I can't bring myself to even attempt to use it. I cross past the back of the cottages where I can have a little warning of something whooshing towards me. Only an actual crossing with lights will make it safe(r).

    Posted 1 week ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

    FABULOUS work by Kirsty Lewin.

    Read it all.

    Brilliant - a trader from across the road came over and replaced the cones. Will be supporting his business - off to buy something now!

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1289204299428372480.html

    Posted 1 week ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

    Things may be changing -

    Apologies, this was a poor decision on our part. It won't happen again.

    https://twitter.com/cuckoosbakery/status/1289660867554885633

    Posted 1 week ago #
  21. gembo
    Member

    Kirsty is particularly keen on SUVs. Do not get me wrong, I am with her. These cars are a menace, far too long, wide and high and drivers often not aware of the extra space their car occupies. But smaller cars such as the new minis also can be driven badly your original minis always tend to be well driven. In My experience.

    Did Kirsty only make one spend in one shop in whole of edinburgh?

    Posted 1 week ago #
  22. gembo
    Member

    The cuckoo bakery attempting to apologise. But getting more flames. Glad I don’t do twitter. BAsic rules of negotiation, if your opponent flexes towards you, flex back?

    Though new town flaneur seems a hoot. They say I will miss the book festival as was the only place I knew I was safe from Leithers and Fifers.

    Posted 1 week ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    This “critical moment” warrants bold plans to transform the city, said Maskell. Her proposals include an immediate ban on all private car journeys inside York’s Roman walls, except for people who rely on cars such as disabled residents, as part of a green revolution. “Quiet mornings” should be introduced for vulnerable people to shop in the city before it fills up with tourists, she said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/aug/02/york-crossroads-coronavirus-tourism-city-pandemic

    Posted 1 week ago #
  24. Morningsider
    Member

    Cycled up and down Morningside Road/Bruntsfied Place today. I would say about 20% of the cones marking extra pedestrian space had been moved to allow cars to park. Most pedestrians were sticking to the permanent footway, probably because the extra space looks like road works - they are even signed as roadworks. Some explanation of what is going on would be good - plus temporary ramps into the extra space for those with prams and wheelchair users.

    After waiting months for this, it is disappointing that the execution is so poor. This matters, as people see the majority of pedestrians not using the space, which creates a reasonable case for the removal of the cones and a return to normal. This in turn hinders future plans for improvement as people can legitimately argue that "we tried that, but it was a failure". I think some speedy action is required to turn things around.

    I appreciate barriers, wands etc. are in short supply. However, it should be easy to create eye-catching signage, install ramps, stencil pedestrian figures onto the new space and a host of other cheap and easy solutions that I am not being paid to come up with.

    Posted 1 week ago #
  25. CycleAlex
    Member

    Midlothian have scrapped their plans for more ped space:
    "we will NOT be introducing parking restrictions in Loanhead, Bonnyrigg, Dalkeith and Gorebridge for now, as outlined in our Spaces for People bid." https://twitter.com/midgov/status/1290201559356276736

    Now we just need WLC to do the same (if they even proposed any) and we can have a Lothian council trifecta of "Oh that might annoy someone, never mind".

    Posted 1 week ago #
  26. Frenchy
    Member

    I walked along Dalkeith High St last week and was struck by how the pavement was really inadequately wide, even without worrying about distancing guidance.

    Posted 1 week ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

  28. crowriver
    Member

    So, Midlothian Council will be returning the Spaces For People money then?

    "The cost of this project is £65,010."

    https://www.midlothian.gov.uk/info/200296/coronavirus/660/spaces_for_people/2

    Posted 1 week ago #
  29. fimm
    Member

    Just seen a Facebook post from Backery Andante in Morningside claiming that their takings have gone down since the parking restrictions went in, and linking to a petition against them.
    1) any suggestions for a polite response
    2) would a counter petition be a good idea?
    3) what else?

    Posted 1 week ago #
  30. gembo
    Member

    @fimm that bakery does make exceedingly good bread have cycled often to buy it and indeed from farmers market. My brother in law, not always reliable, says he can get the same loaf for half the price from another great bakery in Ayr.

    Has a petition against them cropped up because they are vociferously against safe cycling PARKING very tight down their way, perhaps if they are vociferously anti safe cycling they should reconsider?

    Posted 1 week ago #

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