On the council webcast Cllr Webber has pulled the PGTips stunt of sticking on a bike helmet to show that she understands cycling.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Scottish Govmt announces £10m for pop up cycle/walking lanes
(3661 posts)-
Posted 4 years ago #
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Hope it was back to front...
Posted 4 years ago # -
“
VOTE - Conservative amend't defeated 10-5
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https://twitter.com/spokeslothian/status/1296468838415048704
Posted 4 years ago # -
A pretty unedifying debate which hasn’t changed much.
Point scoring from all sides. The Tories made the reasonable point that schemes should be regularly reviewed and that high quality should be the objective. Let themselves down by shouting about cyclists dictating policy.
LibDems said that residents weren’t being informed properly (probably fair).
Administration said that schemes will get better over time.
Most interesting part was the comments from the transport officers: lots of schemes in development, over 50 safe routes to school are in train and are the priority; difficult to get anything beyond cones anywhere in the UK although that is starting to be resolved.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Alex Cole Hamilton grandstanding again: he’s organising a public meeting against the changes in Gyle Park. Will his gas mask get another outing?
Corstorphine residents may remember he recently declined to get involved in road safety issues on Corstorphine High Street because he was an MSP and roads were a council responsibility.
Posted 4 years ago # -
“a public meeting“
My bold...
Posted 4 years ago # -
What is this about?
“
Gwendoline Macdonald, above right, 40, a disabled resident who lives at the Maybury end of Craigs Road said she “feared being locked in my flat throughout winter” under the new proposals.
On hearing the news she said she “almost burst into tears” as the proposals are “unrealistic” for someone who has to use a wheelchair.
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Presumably this is about the need to drive a bit further?
If not, how can she be worse off?
(Genuine question)
Posted 4 years ago # -
From what I can gather, the objections that go beyond longer journeys are:
- this could result in parents on the school run doing three-point turns outside Craigmount
- people who would have used a left turn onto Maybury Road from Craigs Road will now have to make a more difficult right turn onto Drumbrae
- some worries about bin lorries reversingOther than those, most of the complaints appear to be the usual that arise whenever roads change. HankChief and acsimpson will know the details better.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Something about retrofitted cul-de-sacs not having turning places like modern ones. Possibly related to the bin lorries point.
Posted 4 years ago # -
What utter <rule 2>. My mums street does have a dedicated turning space but the bin truck still reverses up the street. Mate lived in Appin Terrace getting turned there in a car was murder same as a thousand other streets in the city whether they've been designed as a cul de sac or if they were built before every household has a car per occupant.
Posted 4 years ago # -
For the lady in the article, the right turn at Drumbrae appears to be the main concern. That and driving a bit further.
Could the turning outside Craigmount be solved by no entry to Craigs Road at drop off/pick up time?
Posted 4 years ago # -
Nick Cook desperately worried about traffic queues outside South Morningside Primary caused by the Braid Road closure.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Funnily enough I was visiting family on Braid Farm Road today, and coming away from there I found the junction of Braid Road with Braid Hills Road no less busy than usual*, if anything slightly more so, especially for a Friday mid-morning. No idea where all the traffic was coming from or going to but it does rather suggest that closing what was effectively a rat-run past the Hermitage gate on Braid Road hasn't made much odds beyond making the area immediately around that gate much more pedestrian-friendly. (IMO more pedestrian-friendly access at Blackford Pond wouldn't go amiss either. From my own experience I'd say that some folks swing their cars into the parking area there with rather too much gay abandon and not nearly enough observation, anticipation, or consideration for other road users.)
I've just noticed on Google Maps that (1) the Braid Road closure isn't shown, which might be contributing to some confusion amongst drivists unfamiliar with the area, especially if they are using Google Maps as a sat nav, and (2) the stretch of Braid Road between Braid Hills Road and Braid Farm Road seems, inexplicably, to be shown as a dual carriageway.
* i.e. pre-lockdown
Posted 4 years ago # -
The section of Braid Road near South Morningside Primary is relatively lightly used. I know this as the Parent Council campaigned for years to get a zebra crossing installed on Braid Road, which pupils had to cross to reach the then school annex in the Cluny Centre. A crossing was never installed as, following a Council traffic count, the amount of traffic was found to be too low to meet the threshold for a new crossing.
As ever, queuing traffic isn't due to the closure of a short section of road 400m from the school gate - there are simply too many cars.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Worth remembering:
Instead of wasting time trying to convert opponents, we should invest it in motivating passive allies to act.
https://ensia.com/voices/climate-change-deniers/
And while it's sometimes fun to play/mock/supply facts/corrections/troll with the Tory/Lib-Dem Councillors and the anti-LTN groups on Twitter etc., it's possibly better to spend your time trying to pull the "passive allies" into being "active allies"
Every time we reply or react to "the antis" it amplifies their voice, which could be counterproductive
Posted 4 years ago # -
Tweet from the co-chair of South Morningside Primary Parent Council in response to Nick Cook:
I'm the co-chair of the parent council Nick & I am sorry to say that there have been terrible traffic queues outside South Morningside Primary for years . Reopening Braid Road sadly won't solve this problem. What other ideas do you have?
Posted 4 years ago # -
No idea how much this is paranoia
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Sorry but with the knowledge that Edinburgh council want the 6500 house west Craig development passed....this plays into their hands.
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https://twitter.com/mcginleytony/status/1296797735136440320
(Or relevant to proposed East Craig’s scheme)
Posted 4 years ago # -
I found an objection I agree with in the East Craigs consultation:
"These build outs follow the Edinburgh Street Design guidance, which is based on best practice design from across the UK and aboard, for making junctions safer for walking and cycling. By narrowing the road it puts the cyclist in the primary position, where cars cannot, or are much less likely to pass a cyclist. This reduces the likelihood of a car passing and then turning left in front of a cyclist and potentially causing a collision. The build outs and tightening will considerably slow down vehicles and narrow the crossing distance for pedestrians. Vehicles travelling too fast on entry to junctions such as these in this area was highlighted to the WEL team during consultation."
Is forcing cyclists into primary to block cars really in the design standards?
Posted 4 years ago # -
There are definite elements of post fact in the factions opposing the EC LTN. People claiming driveways will be blocked or that they will no longer be able to leave home. I don't know if people aren't bothering to read the plans or are deliberately miss understanding them. The tweet chdot quoted has also added 4000 homes out of the blue. Even including Cammo the West Craigs development is only roughly 2.5k.
The one genuine concern I have seen is that other than Drumbrae there are not currently any plans to add active travel provision to surrounding streets. If they are serious about getting people to stop driving to the gyle/corstorphine then they need to provide cycle routes down Maybury and along the A8. Especially providing a safe means to cycle through Drumbrae and Maybury Junctions. If that can be done to a high standard then they can genuinely say there is an alternative to family trips on those routes.
On the local facebook there are repeated questions as to why a bus gate is necessary on Craigs Road when there is only one infrequent but service. If they aren't willing to realise that the bus gate exists to allow buses to drive along an otherwise closed road rather then I'm not sure they are willing to understand the aims of the scheme.
Many turning circles in modern cul-de-sacs seem to be full of parked cars which rather defeats their purpose.
Regarding the two supporters which the EN quotes the first one claims it will be Europe's largest cul-de-sac ignoring the fact that an equivalent sized one already exists in East Craigs. Just wait until he hears about Mull of Kintyre.
The wheelchair user is another odd one. As I mentioned above there is nothing to improve her ability to move about by wheelchair but then there is nothing to make it harder either. If she is talking about driving then there is no difference in winter compared to the rest of the year. I wonder if one of the PG-tips style people have been feeding her lies.
I personally think it all boils down to motorists feeling of entitlement and a bias towards the status quo. All the other noise is them trying to find ways of saying they don't like it without being honest enough to say I drive to work at the Gyle and this will double the length of my short journey.
Posted 4 years ago # -
“I personally think it all boils down to motorists feeling of entitlement and a bias towards the status quo.”
I personally agree.
“they don't like it without being honest enough to say I drive to work at the Gyle and this will double the length of my short journey.“
Aha
Not that that could apply to any living in EC...
Posted 4 years ago # -
The petition claims the changes will "increase risk to all road users", which I'm struggling to wrap my head around. There are also some odd ideas about what democracy is - "the democratic will of the majority of respondents MUST be respected".
Posted 4 years ago # -
"the democratic will of the majority of respondents MUST be respected"
Ah yes democracy.
Respondents to CEC consultation? The one that ‘no one knew about’?
And there was a majority wanting the same thing?
Posted 4 years ago # -
“
Instead of wasting time trying to convert opponents, we should invest it in motivating passive allies to act.
“
I partly agree, but it’s not an either or.
Would be nice the get more supporters to express their support - and talk to their neighbours-
- but, meanwhile, the antis are inventive their own facts/misunderstandings and spreading them.Some people are unwilling/able to ‘imagine different’ -
Posted 4 years ago # -
Is this even vaguely true?
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This scheme is in response to the building of hundreds of new houses west of here. The proposals, as Alan pointed out, will only make matters worse as parents attempt to extricate themselves from a series of cul-de-sacs. I don’t have the answers you seek - neither does this plan.
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https://twitter.com/dexbee2/status/1296826507818602497
IF wholly or partly true, wouldn’t it help to reduce rat running from all the extra cars?
Presume the assumption is that all the kids from the new houses will be driven to secondary school?
Perhaps CEC is trying to prevent this??
Posted 4 years ago # -
Clearly I live in a parallel universe, I can’t understand this
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Actually it’s not - it’s to isolate this area from the hundreds of new houses being built at the Maybury. Most people seem to understand this. But you believe what you want to believe.
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Posted 4 years ago # -
Glasgow Council have been awarded another £4m, taking their funding up to £7.5m.
There was talk of Edinburgh applying for more.
Posted 4 years ago # -
The wording of the press release makes the current allocations sound final. "After the closure of the fund, all remaining applications have now been assessed... With this fund now closed and emergency measures in place or being developed, attention has now returned to permanent active travel infrastructure in Scotland"
Interesting to note that ScotGov match funding for permanent PfE schemes is rising to 70% - no doubt good news for many councils but potentially bad for CEC. I imagine the total fund won't rise, so less projects will be funded.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@Rob - That sounds right about the design guidance, although I've not double checked just now. Certainly, Cycling by Design has lane widths which it says should be avoided, as they lead to more close passes.
From memory, lane widths of between 3 and 3.4m aren't supposed to be used.
Of course, if there's room to widen and put in cycle lanes, that's better. But there are places where there isn't room to do that, and where narrowing lanes would be an improvement. The southbound lane at the foot of Kirk Brae is one such place, in my experience.
Posted 4 years ago # -
A cheering tale from elsewhere -
https://twitter.com/emilyraemaxwell/status/1296532458100400136
Posted 4 years ago # -
Good to see that "ambitious temporary infrastructure" in the borders just means reducing the speed limit in some places. https://www.scotborders.gov.uk/news/article/3911/12m_secured_from_spaces_for_people_programme
Posted 4 years ago #
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