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Scottish Govmt announces £10m for pop up cycle/walking lanes

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  1. Arellcat
    Moderator

    There was a hatchback and a builder's van half on the footway and half on the bike lane there, on the DYLs, when I passed by about 15:45 yesterday.

    Northbound video footage from about 15:15 yesterday indicated:

    • Existing DYLs end after no.68 Buckstone Terrace
    • BMW X3 parked outside no.62, in the cycle lane
    • Mini parked outside no.60, in the cycle lane
    • Tipper truck (unbranded) parked outside no.58, in the cycle lane
    • Volvo XC70 parked on new DYL outside no.56, in the cycle lane
    • Vauxhall Mokka parked on new DYL outside no.54, in the cycle lane and on footway
    • VW van parked on new DYL outside no.52, in the cycle lane and on footway
    • Ford Ranger Wildtrak monster truck thing parked outside no.52, in the cycle lane and on footway
    • Renault Traffic van from AFS Logistics parked on new DYL outside no.48, almost fully on the footway with right-hand wheels on the DYL – I am not sure a wheelchair user would have been able to pass
    • The new DYLs continue, broken only for bus stops, zigzag markings and side roads, to the Buckstone shops.

    Spotting parked vehicles ahead I departed the cycle lane at Caiystane Crescent and join the merry throng. I didn't bother rejoining the cycle lane at all – it was actually blocked further down by more white vans – and only rejoined the bus lane at the old tram shelter. The traffic heading into Morningside was tailed back to there, which is quite normal.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  2. wingpig
    Member

    On Wednesday night around 22:30 I went along Forrest Road and George IV Bridge and there were no vehicles parked in the Covid lanes. I went along the George IV bit as I hadn't yet been along it and wanted to be able to say I had in the future but it just meant I had to stop and re-integrate myself with the cars in the car lane at the Bank Street junction.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  3. ejstubbs
    Member

    Wands are now in place in both directions from the Greenbank Crescent/Braidburn Terrace lights roughly as far south as Buckstone Road. No sign of orcas, though.

    They make the 'floating' disabled space south of Comiston Springs Avenue look a lot more sensible. And there is acres of room between the space and the centre line, not least because the centre line has been moved to accommodate the parking bay on that side:

    What that van in the chipwrapper photo was doing heaven alone only knows (strange as well since white vans usually seem to love staying as far to the right as possible).

    I do think that adding white lines to delineate the outer edge of the whole parking bay, not just the disabled spaces, would be helpful. But maybe that wouldn't be compliant with the applicable regulations? Don't know. (I have tried reading the road signs & markings regs in the past - OMG that stuff is dry as dust...)

    North of Caiystane Crescent there were still vehicles parked in the cycle lane, but the DYLs seemed to be clear. Maybe some enforcement action had been taken earlier this morning? The builder's truck that was parked yesterday on the DYLs straddling the footway and the cycle lane was parked in the non-DYL bit of the cycle lane when I passed that way today, which might suggest that 'a word' had been had...

    There is no hatched triangle prior to the non-DYL bit of the cycle lane north of Caiystane Crescent, which suggests that maybe there isn't going to be an 'outboard' parking bay there, just parking in the cycle lane. Which is far from great (and I believe isn't legal). Maybe they need to move the centre line to the east to make room for a bay there and just haven't got round to it yet.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  4. slowcoach
    Member

    "fools and bairns should never see a thing half done" that was a favourite saying I picked up from one of my ex-bosses, most often used in the context of councillors/press/public complaining about a road scheme we hadn't yet finished.

    I was watching "The Bridge" on iplayer, and wondered how many other viewers were looking at the cycle facilities - it is partly set in Copenhagen. A taxi drops off one of the minor characters in a cycle lane outside a hotel and (spoiler alert) there wasn't any conflict with the cyclist who goes past.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.creativebyrovelo.com/?pgid=ka2k578m4-d5831c42-980a-432a-b907-3e107b932f0e

    Posted 4 years ago #

  6. chdot
    Admin

    https://twitter.com/lmacinnessnp/status/1304525295400214528

    Posted 4 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/parkinsons-scot-trapped-home-after-22666379

    Posted 4 years ago #

  8. ejstubbs
    Member

    Wands southbound on Comiston Road as far as the Charwood restaurant now.

    I did notice that the short stretch of cycle lane northbound on the approach to the Greenbank Crescent/Braidburn Terrace traffic lights is only advisotry (delineated with a broken line). Anyone know why?

    What with that, and the fact of the bus lane that runs north from the Comiston Springs Avenue junction only being active at weekday peak times*, that means that there is no permanent/dedicated cycling infrastructure northbound for over 30% of the length of Comiston Road :(

    Also noticed this morning that the side roads off Morningside Road (Falcon Road West, Falcon Avenue etc) seemed to be a lot busier with parked cars than previously. Is this a reflection of the reduction in parking on the main road? (I also noted the bike store on the corner of Falcon Road: is that new or am I just very unobservant?)

    * Though I've only rarely seen drivers using it outside of those times. Except that now it does seem to be being used for parking - despite the opposite side of that stretch of Comiston Road being the most generously provided with parking bays under the new scheme.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  9. Frenchy
    Member

    That bit of advisory lane is "to allow buses to join traffic", according to the plans Scott Arthur posted (CycleAlex's post on previous page).

    Posted 4 years ago #

  10. CycleAlex
    Member

    @ejstubbs re: bus lane hours

    We will look into extending Bus Lane operation hours to 7am – 7pm on both bus lanes on the affected section of the A702 (northbound and southbound) to protect cyclists outside peak hours.
    https://drscottarthur.scot/2020/09/07/a702-update-bus-lanes-traffic-lanes-bus-stops-40mph-on-bigger-road/

    I'm hoping there's consideration to an early implementation of citywide 7-7-7 as part of the pop-up bus priority measures.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  11. CycleAlex
    Member

    In a shock to literally no-one, a LibDem Cllr is trying to bin (sorry, pause and consult on) the Meadows-Greenbank quiet route: https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/mgAi.aspx?ID=16738

    I also note they include a mention of segregated cycle lanes in their alternative at the start, while bundling in the full re-opening of Braid Rd at the bottom. How very Cllr Webber.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  12. Stickman
    Member

    Does he own a gas mask or is it passed round the Lib Dems ?

    Posted 4 years ago #

  13. algo
    Member

    @CycleAlex we are trying to mobilise support here:

    https://twitter.com/blackfordsafer1/status/1304857517399445507?s=20

    this route could be visionary and transformative so please do write to your councillors to express support.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  14. Stickman
    Member

    How, after all this time, are they still making this claim?

    Notes that the Council is proposing to implement the scheme by means of a Temporary Traffic Regulation Order despite the fact that there is no evidence that local residents and users of the route have any difficulties meeting the social distancing rules on this route.

    It’s to give people safe alternatives to public transport, to allow social distancing ****on that public transport *** and to reduce car use.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  15. chdot
    Admin

    “and to reduce car use”

    Some politicians think THAT is electorally unacceptable...

    Posted 4 years ago #

  16. boothym
    Member

    One of the complaints about the East Craigs LTN is that all traffic must go east to Drum Brae. There's a woman who lives at the west end of Craigs Road being vocal about this on twitter and in the press. (IIRC she uses a wheelchair)

    Instead of closing the Maybury Road junction to cars, what if the bus gate was moved so that the three cul-de-sacs west of the school could use that junction? (Cutting the rat run in the middle rather than at one end)

    Would that appease the anti-LTN campaigners or are they just completely against making any changes to the roads in this area?

    Posted 4 years ago #

  17. crowriver
    Member

    I suspect you have just answered your own question.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  18. HankChief
    Member

    @boothym - That very suggestion was made by Spokes, but it can only happen if/once the Craigs / Maybury Rd junctions is reconfigured so that exiting traffic can turn right.

    At present you can only turn left and there is nowhere safe to turn around if you wanted to head North.

    The junction is planned to be reconfigured as part of the house building to the West of Maybury Road, which will all be channelled onto (a widened) Craigs Road.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  19. Stickman
    Member

    If true then this is a <rule 2> disgrace.

    https://twitter.com/petertbbrett/status/1305259568503681025?s=21

    Due to @LivingStreetsEd and @CllrScottArthur's "successful" campaign, @Edinburgh_CC have pulled floating bus stops and bus stop boarders from all of their emergency active travel schemes.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  20. Frenchy
    Member

    I don't think it is completely true.

    They're distinguishing between "floating bus stops" and "bus boarders" - "floating bus stops" have a pedestrian area between the kerb and the cycle lane, "bus boarders" don't. They've said they won't be using bus boarders anywhere, but that they'll continue to use floating bus stops. I think they'll also be a bit stricter about where they use them, based on number of buses using the route, speed limits, gradients etc.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  21. Rob
    Member

    @boothym IMH (and out of area) opinion, the objection is purely based on having to drive further. The cover story is that right turns at Drumbrae roundabout are dangerous, but that can be avoided by going north and making 3 left turns instead. Suggest that option and people become very concerned about pollution. Yes, it is quite a bit further, but that is a big part of how LTNs work. It will make driving to the Gyle/David Lloyd's take twice as long but have a far less noticeable affect on longer journeys.

    I doubt you will be able to find any tweaks/changes that will make everyone happy right now, especially given the most vocal objectors live in LTNs and have little to gain from this. Hopefully the trial will be able to run its course and people will see it works, assuming it does.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  22. Arellcat
    Moderator

    They're distinguishing between "floating bus stops" and "bus boarders"

    I think I said something to the same effect on That Twitter recently, that the arrangement on Geo IV Br was more 'bus stop' than 'passenger stop'.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  23. Rob
    Member

    Of course, in the case of the person you're referring to, it is very unfortunate that someone who is car dependent will be inconvenienced. Bus gates do allow authorised vehicles. It shouldn't be too hard to authorise blue badge holder's cars to use it.

    It is also worth noting that modal shift isn't the only way LTNs work. There is also time shift (e.g. not making local journeys at rush hour), destination shift (e.g. some other shop is now more convenient) and journey consolidation (e.g. only going to the Gyle when you have multiple reasons).

    Posted 4 years ago #

  24. ejstubbs
    Member

    It looks like the original Comiston Road plans (as on the Spokes web site) had bus boarders but, per the later-dated plans linked by Frenchy, as implemented the bus stops are located where they always were - so they occupy the cycle lanes :(

    I've also noted that the original plan specified orcas delineating the cycle lanes, but the later version refers only to 'cones' (apart from what would appear to be redundant references to not having orcas at pedestrian crossings/refuges).

    What I don't understand is the odd patch of hatching by the pedestrian refuge just north of Buckstone Gardens:

    IIRC it was originally proposed that the southbound bus stop between Buckstone Gardens and Buckstone Road would be be relocated further north, and be a bus boarder. The comments I saw criticising that idea seemed to be completely over the top, but it does seem to have been dropped. Could that hatching be a remnant of that idea that shouldn't have been painted? (There is no hatching opposite any other refuge AFAICS.)

    Posted 4 years ago #

  25. neddie
    Member

    the bus stops are located where they always were - so they occupy the cycle lanes

    Also, this means that every time the bus stops, it will be overtaken by about 20 odd cars (instead of the cars having to wait behind). This means it will end up at the back of a very long queue of cars at the Fairmilehead junction (or the Greenbank junction in the opposite direction)

    <Massive Facepalm>

    Posted 4 years ago #

  26. Morningsider
    Member

    Just cycled up the southbound lane - an absolute joy! Not feeling that pressure to go full tilt. Cars kept well at bay as the lane is pretty generous. We can quibble about floating bus stops (which I think are a good thing) but this is a step change in provision. I would argue it's the best on-street cycle lane in Edinburgh.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  27. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Might have to contrive a rush hour ride into town and back. Or I could go in the other direction and ride in the country where there's no-one about.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  28. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Low Traffic Neighbourhoods, Car Use, and Active Travel: Evidence from the People and Places Survey of Outer London Active Travel Interventions

    ...

    While the focus of the programme was active travel (walking and cycling), here we additionally examine how interventions affected car ownership and use. We also examine the impact of living in a ‘Low Traffic Neighbourhood’ (LTN), i.e. an area-based intervention that removes through motor traffic from the area’s residential streets (e.g. via modal filters restricting through motor traffic, Figure 2). In 2020, LTNs are being implemented across the UK, especially London, through Covid-related emergency active travel funding to support safe walking and cycling and discourage unnecessary car use.

    “

    https://transportfindings.org/article/17128-low-traffic-neighbourhoods-car-use-and-active-travel-evidence-from-the-people-and-places-survey-of-outer-london-active-travel-interventions

    Posted 4 years ago #

  29. ejstubbs
    Member

    ...the bus stops are located where they always were - so they occupy the cycle lanes

    Except, for some reason, the Braid Burn bus stop. On both versions of the plan that is shown as being temporarily closed. However, the bus stop 'flag' has not been covered up and the number 11 that I was on today stopped at it. The wands continue all the way through the bus stop so the cycle lane was unobstructed while the bus was stationary. And yet the world did not end, the ground did not open up and pour forth terrifying demons, and no-one came to any harm. How can that be?

    Posted 4 years ago #

  30. CycleAlex
    Member

    Comiston Road. Excellent.

    It's somewhere I'd never have even considered cycling before, but today it was downright pleasant.

    More!

    Posted 4 years ago #

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