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Scottish Govmt announces £10m for pop up cycle/walking lanes

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  1. Frenchy
    Member

    Utility cycling is (in the UK) dominated by the middle classes

    Is this actually true? I'm sure I've seen graphs from Rachel Aldred showing rates of utility cycling are almost completely independent of income bracket.

    @algo - I poked around with the census data on commuting by transport mode, comparing Wester Hailes to Baberton, Juniper Green and Colinton. The only obvious difference is that folk in Baberton are far more likely to drive to the Gyle.

    Bear in mind various caveats, such as the data being ten years old and flows of fewer than 6 people not being shown, of course, which makes it difficult to look at longer distance commuting patterns.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  2. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @Morningsider

    Absolutely agree. As you know I live in a mixed area with islands of bohemians in a sea of working class and retired people. The difference in approach to bicycles is marked.

    @algo

    Spot on. If you're expected to clock on in Musselburgh at 08h00 in a highly groomed state you take a different view of the commute.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  3. algo
    Member

    @Frenchy - thanks for that. I'm afraid there is no science to my thoughts - just conjecture.

    Mainly I am trying to be self-critical of my own agenda of trying to encourage folk to be car-free in cities when I know for some it is extremely difficult. I do think that in order for active travel to become more widely adopted, we need more than *just* safe infrastructure. We need that mainly, but we also need facilitation societally - encouraging people to build activity into their lives and crucially their commutes, and allowing them to fit this around typical logistics such as school pickups. As I say I am lucky that mainly I can do this and return to work around those times - my other half definitely not.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  4. gembo
    Member

    @algo. Spot on. I have very good friends who have six vehicles in the one family.

    I rewind to not being on computers and other devices anywhere near bed time so that children and adults get a good nights sleep and are up early in the morning. Easier in summer but if you are out the door just after 6.30am in the summer you have a very very quiet commute basically the world to yourself.

    I would rewind to simplifying plans so that each day look to do one thing rather than elaborate schemes that just cause stress.

    Just now everyone needs movement breaks and to get outside in middle class car festooned edinburgh, they need to not take their. Cars and just go for a walk. Break the routine. Give themselves longer to accomplish their shopping or whatever other out of house goal they have.

    When I worked regularly in wester hailes ten years ago yes there were cars but maybe one max per household. Good bus service .

    When I lived in Centre of Edinburgh and also in Marchmont I did not need a car ever.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  5. Stickman
    Member

    That petition now has over 3000 signatures.

    Many of the comments are along the lines of “I’m not against cycle lanes but this is dangerous for cyclists/pedestrians”.

    If the council is smart it will use these comments as evidence of support for its longer term plans.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  6. algo
    Member

    That would be good @Stickman - the Sustrans thing is pretty hilarious. I wonder if we could acknowledge the petition by conceding to remove some power from Sustrans to run art competitions for posters telling us to play nicely with HGVs. I would grudgingly give them up.

    More upsettingly folk I know are sharing this on FB - I will try and speak to them in person when that becomes possible but I wonder what their vision of the future is exactly.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    “If the council is smart it will use these comments as evidence of support for its longer term plans.“

    Yes.

    Are people leaving any useful details about what they think is unsafe?

    Would also be good if CEC ‘listen and modify’ - or explain that people are misguided(?)

    Posted 3 years ago #

  8. Stickman
    Member

    “ Are people leaving any useful details about what they think is unsafe?”

    Of course not.

    One complained that some pedestrians stepped into the road on Dalry Road and he didn’t have room to swerve so had to slow down/brake or something.

    Lots of “I’m a cyclist too” comments as well.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  9. Stickman
    Member

    Oh, and Mr Hunter is contrasting the number of signatories with the number of responses to the City Mobility Plan.

    Because clicking on a Facebook petition is exactly the same as reading, digesting and commenting on a 300 page strategy document.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  10. chdot
    Admin

    At least the CEC PR machine is on the case to some extent -

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/edinburgh-can-be-shining-example-how-create-cleaner-healthier-transport-system-lesley-macinnes-3133273

    Posted 3 years ago #

  11. gembo
    Member

    Took the bike lane at Gillespie this morning, bit slushy but ok, cycled inside four parked cars but then there was a taxi and a Jewson lorries parked next the kerb.

    Further down at canal joining ramp there was a very wide car parked in the middle of the road. But that was also part of the scheme,

    Posted 3 years ago #

  12. crowriver
    Member

    @algo, "I wonder what their vision of the future is exactly."

    Moving to the suburbs/countryside where you can "get more for your money" in terms of housing, while (directly linked to the former) becoming largely dependent on their cars?

    As for the rest, haven't considered it because it doesn't apply to their personal vision? Let others do all that green stuff, too much bother/doesn't fit their hoped for future lifestyle?

    Also electric cars will solve everything (they won't but it will make the owners feel good as that's what they're being told)?

    Posted 3 years ago #

  13. Stickman
    Member

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/citizens-edinburgh-have-had-enough-experiments-thousands-object-spaces-people-plan-3135695

    More complaining from rich white men that their driving habits might have to change slightly.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  14. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    We must have no more consultations where the council proceeds when the majority of respondents oppose their plans.

    Professor Reid. First class mind, clearly.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  15. Frenchy
    Member

    Transform Scotland had an event earlier where the Conservative shadow transport secretary, Graham Simpson, was speaking.

    I can't remember exactly the wording he used, but he was certainly casting aspersions at Edinburgh Council's plans to consider making successful SfP projects permanent.

    I wonder if he could have a chat with the Conservative MSP who in April was asking Michael Matheson to encourage councils to make successful SfP projects permanent. One Graham Simpson, apparently. Clip is at 15:50, in case the link doesn't automatically go there.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  16. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Conservative councillor Susan Webber, who represents Pentland Hills, said: “The pace at which this petition has gathered this level of support should send alarm bells through the administration’s virtual corridors.

    “If they continue to blatantly ignore the vast majority of the city’s residents,

    “

    Yeah right.

    If you read on sensible quotes from ‘the coalition’.

    Read to the end and you’ll find -

    “

    “Use of Experimental Traffic Restriction Orders is not acceptable. The citizens of Edinburgh have had enough of experiments.”

    “

    Says a representative of the people (not).

    Posted 3 years ago #

  17. Stickman
    Member

    @frenchy: great memory to bring that one up again. I’d forgotten all about that. I’m now reminding people about it.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  18. Morningsider
    Member

    @Frenchy - he could also have a word with his colleague Jamie Halcro Johnston, who asked Michael Matheson pretty much the same question last Wednesday:

    You talked about locking in healthy green travel choices during the pandemic. How do you intend to do that? Could a simplified process be adopted for councils that want to make permanent the temporary spaces for people facilities?

    Posted 3 years ago #

  19. chdot
    Admin

    Just askin’

    What IS the Party line??

    Posted 3 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    More from JHJ

    “

    The committee properly underlined the need for active travel and public transport, but that makes little sense to communities where services are distant and local bus connections have been cut to the bone.

    “

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/sp/?id=2021-02-09.8.18

    Posted 3 years ago #

  21. HankChief
    Member

    Back to the SfP petition. I think I now understand the what is behind it.

    They think that the temporary SfP schemes will be made permanent under a single city wide consultation rather than a case by case TRO process.

    No idea if that is true or not, but it seems to have got them riled up.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  22. gembo
    Member

    @hankchief, thanks for your persistence in figuring that out. Wonder why they think that? It would save the council time but it would also be quite radical

    Posted 3 years ago #

  23. chdot
    Admin

    “They think that the temporary SfP schemes will be made permanent under a single city wide consultation rather than a case by case TRO process.“

    Presumably CEC can easily say that’s not true (if it’s not).

    Given the nature of TROs in practice that would increase the chance of all the schemes not being approved(?)

    However it can’t be sensible for every random (subjective word) bit of temporary/pop-up intervention to be the subject of an individual consultation/TRO process.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  24. SnowyTheWolf
    Member

    Lots of new paint gone down over the last couple of days on Lanark Road. Council cracking on. No Armageddon thus far despite the predictions and hysteria.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  25. ARobComp
    Member

    Did a loop for some fresh air tonight, coming back via the lanark road space. Even the area where there is now paint feels a little more secure even though I know that's just a feeling and not reality (likely less safe). When the barriers go in I think it'll be significantly better. The upper sections where there are no lanes yet felt very exposed.

    The article in the EEN is interesting. At one point someone suggests that ALL the infra should be torn out so that it can be consulted upon and then I assume put back in if it's decided it would be good? In the same article complaining about wasting councils money.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  26. Stickman
    Member

    The Comiston Road lanes have been in for a couple of months now. Have any of the forecasts of disaster come true? Wondering if Lanark Road will follow the same trajectory.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  27. LaidBack
    Member

    @ARobComp - Talking to neighbours here they value the re-allocating of street space - mainly for walking. Some also have bikes for leisure use and are minded to use them more. Expect next stage will be to improve on the pop up wands so drainage is better.
    With other roads motorised traffic use has fallen so much that congestion shouldn't be an issue.
    Used the uphill 'bad' Picardy off road lanes other night coming back with carry out meal from Joseph Pearce. Faster than waiting at traffic lights. Downhill just used road though.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  28. chdot
    Admin

    Can’t remember if I posted this at the time (last August).

    It’s been a ‘journey’ - worth it but not over.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  29. SnowyTheWolf
    Member

    Moon howling and distressed wailing imminent as Slateford Road proposals start to make their presence felt. Might lose a few taxi drivers to coronary issues.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  30. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I think the wand-defended lanes may be unusable downhill. I find they funnel you across T-junctions too close to the give way line. We all know that most aoutomobilists have no idea how long the bonnet of their vehicle is and I usually take primary past these junctions.

    Posted 3 years ago #

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