"Credible" is not the same as "convictable". If the bar for initiating action regarding a sexual harassment allegation in the workplace is a High Court conviction, we're all stuffed (but mostly the women.)
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
We need a Scottish Parliament election thread
(1355 posts)-
Posted 3 years ago #
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The accusations resulted in charges being brought. That he was found Not Guilty/Not Proven doesn’t mean they were not credible.
Posted 3 years ago # -
but nobody accepts that their spouse has a veto over divorce and sometimes it's best to pack a bag and run
Sorry I must have misunderstood because
Catalonia tried to pack a bag and run. When that failed... well it failed.
And if some of the kids don't want to pack a bag, do you take the republican/loyalist approach to convincing them?
None of that sounds like the law of either Scotland or England.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Most of the accusations related to events in public places with many witnesses, none of whom saw anything. The one that didn't the jury decided the accuser was not physically present at the time of the alleged offence.
The original two complainers themselves didn't even want to go to the police - it was Lesley Evans that did that.
The whole proposition is that the accusations resulted from an attempt to cover-up the botched HR investigation. There was a fishing expedition and the evidence found never merited charges being made.
I've no idea what happened but I do know I'd have a head like a beetroot if I was the one signed the charges off.
Posted 3 years ago # -
My take, FWIW on the whole Salmond thing is that some of his opponents (including in in the SNP but especially amongst the Unionist community) saw the allegations and proceedings as vindicating their dislike, even hatred of him. When first the disciplinary procedures then the criminal prosecution failed, they could not accept this and carried on throwing mud (skirting with contempt of court in the process).
My own view on Salmond as a person is irrelevant so I'll not share it here. However it has been fascinating to discover just how far his enemies were prepared to go to destroy him. The whole affair has made even clearer, if it were not already obvious, how chummily familiar many in the Scottish elite are with each other - this can be seen ever more obviously in the tacit agreement among most "journalists" to take astoundingly similar positions on the topic.
Posted 3 years ago # -
@steveo
Catalonia was beaten into submission. The divorce analogy stands. People are occasionally beaten into staying in relationships but not happy one.
Posted 3 years ago # -
As I've said before, I cannot see the SNP leadership being willing to be sent to prison for sedition/treason against the state as happened to their Catalan counterparts, therefore UDI or illegal referendums will not be happening any time soon.
Posted 3 years ago # -
> Most of the accusations related to events in public places with many witnesses, none of whom saw anything.
The defendent helpfully admitted during the trial to a pattern of behaviour which, in most normal workplaces, would be summary dismissal territory, especially for the most senior figure in the organisation. Remember the "sleepy cuddle"? The "Christmas card" proposition? It might not be criminal but, if I did it at work, my feet wouldn't hit the floor.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I wonder what I'd make of this stuff (the theories in general, not the specific legal proceedings) if it was being reported of another country, seeing as we have recent experience of various reports of the thoughts of another country's electorate ranging from "almost certain" through "credible" and "unlikely" to "advanced mage conspiracy wingnut".
Then again, I have trouble with people who are comfortable with the level of untruthiness necessary to convincingly talk inbusiness-speak at work meetings, never mind anyone in the Politician category.
Posted 3 years ago # -
@iwrats Catalonia was very badly beaten for the actions some going against the Spanish rule of law, the subtext of your post seemed similar.
I would hope that it never got that far here but can you honestly believe Westminster wouldn't make that look like a birthday party if it wanted to?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Both Catalonia and Scotland are exactly as independent as each other at the moment, so perhaps Sturgeon is simply following an (abridged) Catalonia strategy after all.
Posted 3 years ago # -
“ The one that didn't the jury decided the accuser was not physically present at the time of the alleged offence.”
I thought the jury decided Guilty/Not Guilty/Not Proven and that the reason for those decisions were not discussed outside of the jury room.
Posted 3 years ago # -
If I were intent on landing a former colleague in jail, I would not accuse them of a crime with such a notoriously low conviction rate as sexual assault.
Posted 3 years ago # -
You'd have more luck saying that they knocked you off your bicycle.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Alex Salmond was found not guilty/not proven on all charges at court.
His QC also described him as a 'sex pest, not a sex offender' and the civil service changed thier rules so that no female was to be alone with him.
Thats not the sort of behaviour that would be tolerated in any workplace and would anyone be happy either acting in that way themselves or thier partner/family member being exposed to it?
Posted 3 years ago # -
@14Westfield
I'd delete that post if I was you. Mr Salmond and Mr Jackson are both quite litigious.
@Frenchy
The suggestion that I've heard is that the prosecution was never intended by anyone and resulted from a panicked attempt to cover up the original intention which was merely to smear him. The British state has a history of smearing opponents with sex stories.
Posted 3 years ago # -
can you honestly believe Westminster wouldn't make that look like a birthday party if it wanted to?
The last time a part of the UK left Westminster ignored all their voting and protesting and forced them into an actual war.
The British state is not peopled by gentlemen.
Posted 3 years ago # -
They also have a history of covering up and/or ignoring sexual offences.
Posted 3 years ago # -
That is very true.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Daily reports on the totally mad Keatings v Advocate General case. A private citizen trying to establish the powers of the the Scottish Government to carry out its main manifesto promise and the same government trying to stop him doing that. Bananas.
Posted 3 years ago # -
So what exactly could the First Minister, who ever they were, have done in the last five years to further the ends of independence. (we had our once in a generation referendum)
Christ I can't believe I'm defending NS.
Posted 3 years ago # -
BBC spinning that due to Covid she will abide. I like her. I have never liked him since he pulled up tam dayell on spending policy when the taller Black Bitch visited Linlithgow Academy, unsuspecting as the old Etonian was.
Posted 3 years ago # -
If the USA can manage a full presidential election during a pandemic whilst the president is actively trying to undermine said election surely we can manage a Holyrood election.
Posted 3 years ago # -
“I can't believe I'm defending NS“
Don’t worry you’re mostly not.
Logical thoughts on a complex situation - not ‘personal’ about her.
Posted 3 years ago # -
On the Keating case...
One view from posts I've read... I'm paraphrasing.
"There are only two nations in the union (Wales having been 'assimilated' by England before the UK became an idea.)
Article 1 of the 1707 Treaty of Union treated both countries as equals (Yes, Scotland was broke but that has no relevance legally. Crown of England and Scotland was already unified 104 years earlier of course.).
Permission for any change in status can't be given as that would establish hierarchy of the nations involved in this 'United Kingdom'.
England can leave this union at anytime too - it doesn't need permission. Of course with 95% of media and a larger population many in England might assume Scotland is subordinate. Some here criticise NS as she already has mandate to go ahead - but we can see the absolute hostility when any action by ScotGov is perceived as 'narrow nationalism'. Sovereignty resting with the people resident in Scotland (inc EU and rUK?) was agreed in Westminster couple of years back.
Keating case suggests to some that we aren't actually confident that we can get what we vote for. In that case we are not in a union and the UK does therefore not exist anymore.
Other take...
"I don't understand why we should be doing the UK Government's work for them. Up to them to oppose a referendum in courts if democratically passed in Holyrood."
Posted 3 years ago # -
Very large anti-thatcher vote in Scotland for her entire tenure. Made no difference. Part of the Nationalist ascendancy after devolution?
Posted 3 years ago # -
firstly i stopped caring much bout what other folk think
later i realised why even care about what i myself think
as alice said... "you're nothing but a pack of cards"
NOW STOP
step back, re-read mark fisher's essay
Posted 3 years ago # -
@bax, indeed, indeed.
Posted 3 years ago # -
“
Small wonder, in other words, that our Union now seems closer to breaking-point than any time since 1707. This week, in an exceptionally clear-sighted piece in the Standard, the former Chancellor George Osborne acknowledged as much, and also pointed out the role of Brexit in effectively driving Northern Ireland out of the Union, and in compelling Scots to turn towards independence; his view was that to avoid “losing Scotland”, Boris Johnson’s best option is simply to ignore the wishes of the Scottish people, and deny a referendum in perpetuity.
When a supposedly democratic state reaches that kind of crisis, though, it is already all but acknowledging that the game is over. As Joe Biden said yesterday, quoting Seamus Heaney, democracy can be delayed, but never permanently defeated; and if the people of Scotland have finally decided to leave the Brexit state, and the culture of reactionary delusion on which it is founded, then sooner or later, they will have their way.
“
Posted 3 years ago # -
"Very large anti-thatcher vote in Scotland for her entire tenure"
Not altogether true...
"The 1979 general election in Scotland saw Labour emerge as the largest party with 44 of the 71 seats available, and 41.5% of the vote, up from 36.1% in 1974. The Conservatives ended up with 22 seats and 31.4% of the vote"
Tories historically gtt getween 30 - 40% of the vote share (and sometimes more) in Scotland. Only recently since the 1980s that has started to change:
Posted 3 years ago #
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